Fatherhood Requires Brotherhood - an Introduction to Council of Fathers
We’re so excited to be sharing the first episode of the Council of Fathers Podcast!
This is a Podcast about Fatherhood (in case that wasn’t obvious)
In this episode we cover the basics:
What is the Council of Fathers?
How and why we started running men’s groups for fathers.
Why we’re starting a podcast
You’ll also start to get to know us a little bit. We share some personal stories.
We’ve included the Transcript below offer another way to access what we’re offering here.
Transcript of Episode 1:
Noah: Okay, welcome to the first ever episode of the council of fathers podcast.
[00:00:10] Dave: I'm excited.
[00:00:11] Noah: I'm really excited too. A little bit nervous if I'm being honest.
[00:00:15] Dave: Don't be honest. Wait. No, yes. Be honest. be honest.
[00:00:19] Noah: Yeah. What we're just going to talk about today is , what is this council of fathers thing and why does it exist and how did it start?
And then a little bit about what to be expecting from the podcast.
[00:00:31] Dave: can I just make a note for our listeners that you and I are both wearing the same hat, Yes. It's a beautiful black baseball cap with a goldish Logo leather logo that says
[00:00:45] Noah: council of fathers,
[00:00:47] Dave: how dorky of us.
[00:00:49] Noah: is incredibly dorky of us.
[00:00:51] Dave: But they're good looking hats,
[00:00:52] Noah: good looking hats and we're not so good looking guys wearing them, but you know, we
[00:00:58] Dave: speak for yourself.
I think you're very good looking
[00:01:01] Noah: thank you. you.
[00:01:03] Dave: Nice sweater too.
[00:01:04] Noah: Thank you. This was a Hanukkah gift from Rachel. So Dave, , what is the counsel of father?
[00:01:12] Dave: Oh man, the council fathers is, uh, well, first of all, I'd describe it as, uh, a program that, , we put together. Mostly you started it, you kicked it off and I joined and I'm super grateful for that, but it's an opportunity for fathers to come together twice monthly in, in a group once a month, as a, what we call a council where guys can share their journey of fatherhood, their struggles, their successes their questions and other guys nod their heads and listen ,
and get it. And,, it turns out to be a place where I think. fathers share stuff that they don't share anywhere else. Yeah. And then the other meeting per month is what we call learning
session.
[00:02:11] Noah: And that learning session is, really intended to help equip dads with new knowledge, information and practices to to really hone in the art of being a dad. We try to make those sessions are super interactive and, it's not like a lecture or anything like that, we cover things like communication skills and childhood development. And how do you deal with triggers? And, ,all sorts . of fun, stuff like that.
[00:02:42] Dave: How does your brain work? And
How does your brain work when your kids throwing a tantrum and what's going on with your kid's brain? When they're throwing a tantrum and stuff, we pull from really helpful parenting books. And then as a group we talk about and try and put it into practice. this mean practically for what's happening in. the home And those happen online currently. and it's really fun
[00:03:15] Noah: . Yeah. Well it's fun. And, , it's, it feels really remarkable. Just what ends up happening, for the dads. And then when we meet in that next council and it's like, what threads of that first learning session showed up for them and those weeks between that? And, it's really rad.
[00:03:33] Dave: Yeah. And those are in person when we meet As a council and sitting around a fire and feels really just for me, it feels like this monthly reminder of what's most important to me, which is being a parent. And also I always leave feeling a little bit more energized than when I get there, which is amazing. at After two hours of talking with a bunch of guys, really cool that we all feel a little. bit high from it you know, And we all see. offer coaching in between these sessions where,, we work one-on-one with dads on specific parenting strategies or issues that are coming up and relationship that, uh, is most ripe for each guy working with. And personally, I love sitting with dads puzzling together on how can we, you know, improve as, as fathers.
[00:04:44] Noah: And I mean, I think the one other thing that ends up, we send out weekly emails with kind of journaling prompts and, , things to reflect on or think about or discuss with your sort of partner of the month. We partner up, uh, the guys in the council each month with a different guy. So, um, but, or, and it's so interesting that it's our core program, right. And the council of fathers. But when I think about what the council of fathers is, right. I think of it hopefully as a part of a bigger movement of men, of dads who are trying to show up for their families fully, you know, with their hearts. , and maybe, change some of the cultural patterns. Have existed in the past around, you know, what a dad's role is or how a dad ought to connect with their children or not connect with their children. What that work life balance might look like.
[00:05:54] Dave: Yeah. Cultural patterns and also lineage patterns, doing things different.
than our dads did. We might have more resources now than, than our dads did. And Our dads had greater resources than their dads, but this council of fathers is a resource that our dads definitely did not have. And so we come together with this passion for parenting and, and figuring out what it means to be Uh, dad in this world. And we get better at it by interacting
[00:06:33] Noah: And it gets maybe a little bit easier. Like it's always going to be challenging. There's always, the kids are growing and changing and, um
[00:06:43] Dave: driving us bananas
[00:06:45] Noah: different ways, um, at different ages. And, I find that, , it's that much less. Hard with, , with the community to be a part of, to know that I'm not at it alone. And, then even, yeah, to get ideas around how to navigate this specific conflict or pattern that my family is dealing with.
[00:07:11] Dave: Yeah. You have, you have this great quote that you put into the council from the beginning, which is. Fatherhood requires brotherhood. And I just love that because I think, you know, once upon a time there was a community of men living on land together and working together and learning from each other and watching each other.
And that's not the case anymore. We don't grow up most of us anyway, don't grow up working next to our fathers and watching our grandfathers and watching our uncles and learning how to deal with the emotions from watching them deal with thoughts from conversing with them. Most of us are quite isolated in our own family units and then we're, we're sort of, you know,
golf balls in the dark. Like we're, we're really trying to figure this thing out. Yeah. That's kind of the most complex thing I've ever done. parenting. And I, and I'm trying to figure it out from my children. teaching me, you And so in a way, what what we're trying to create is. , a way to draw upon each other and, and, um, have the community be smarter than the individual something like that.
[00:08:48] Noah: Yeah. And I think, , humans, we're social creatures and there is this huge change that's happened over the past. , whether you say 10 or 20 or 50 years in, in our culture that like you said, has led to more isolation, more installation, um, and then on top of that, there is this whole thing for about men and being vulnerable and being able to share our emotions and emotional intelligence or, you know, what that even means and how we're raised.
[00:09:19] Dave: Yeah. My my wife has a quote that she pulled from some meme on the web that. says I was a much better parent before I, had kids. you know, and, and there's something about fatherhood that has really humbled me, know, that brings out parts of me that I didn't see prior to becoming a father. and Oh shit. What do I do with that? Right. I'm feeling rage right now. Where the hell did that come from? You know, And where do I take that?
And, you know, council fathers is the perfect place to take that. Right? Like, Hey, you guys ever, you know, feel like banging your head against the wall at two o'clock in the morning, cause your kid wakes you up. nods, you know? Yeah.
[00:10:18] Noah: just that, uh, I mean, I remember, , from the, from the first group, just that feeling of like, oh yeah, I'm not at this alone. And I also remember, you know, one of the dads from one of the groups saying, like, after being doing the council thing for a few times , he tried to organize this college friends
Who he goes way back with,
way back
[00:10:43] Dave: I remember that.
[00:10:43] Noah: and, and he's like, Hey guys, let's get together. And, you know, and we can like talk about stuff and, and he wanted to talk about his struggles with his kids and, and, everyone wants to look at everything's okay. Over here, you know, like, everyone's fine. I'm
[00:10:57] Dave: Facebook response, right.
[00:10:58] Noah: , even though they were in person, or maybe they were on zoom at a time, but yeah, just that, like not everyone is willing or capable. or
Uh, actually,
[00:11:10] Dave: there's not a, uh, the space created for it. I mean, and I know we're, we're really tight. We're good friends. And prior to council of fathers, we would talk about parenting a little bit,
you know, off to the side when is sort of a secondary conversation, but we didn't get into the nitty gritty how it feels when your three-year-old won't put their Damn shoes on, you know, w. didn't drop in like that. Not because we didn't want to be because there wasn't the space
[00:11:46] Noah: right. And that is a big part of, what we're trying create here is, is the space for that. Um, or, and actually lots of spaces for that. Right. Um, and, and, also just show that it's possible that it, that it's that it, that it can be there if you are willing to
take the leap to take a risk to just sort of, yeah. See what can happen. And,, to that point, , we have the day retreats that we've done and we've got some workshops planned for the spring, which are smaller commitments, then that whole like six month program. Um, and we're working to sort of.
Maybe it's create a little bit of an online community as well for either people who aren't local or just to kind of tie the thread between retreats in between cohorts and make things a little bit more robust. Not that anything can really replace that face-to-face in person connection, but
[00:12:49] Dave: yeah, but there is something about just setting aside time and structuring. time That allows us all to retreat from fathering and regroup recharge, , get ready to get back in there.
[00:13:08] Noah: That's another thing we hear from all the dads is how much they feel more energized to be with their families. They feel more present., , their partners, their co-parents there. Notice it too and, and reflect it back and hearing those stories. I mean, if there was ever anything that would keep me going, it's that
[00:13:24] Dave: Yeah. it was funny. The first group, you remember the first group, one of the dads at the end. There was something like 15 guys in the room. And one of the dads asked all the others. How many of you, how many of your spouses told you about this?
And I'd say, you know, 10 out of 15 people
raised the raise their hands.
There's a Fortunately, there's support from people that care about us. you know, see that fatherhood requires brotherhood. see that, that dads need, you know, some resources too, even though that's not a cultural norm for, ,for reprieve four.
[00:14:16] Noah: yeah. Well, I mean, you're speaking to the, how much mothers want the fathers of their kids to be. Doing something to help them drop into their hearts a little bit more to help them have access to their emotions. I mean, um, which speaks a little bit to how and why this all started. Right. I have this one memory, Hazel, my first kid, who's now seven must've. been
four or five, six months old. And I'm in the kitchen after cleaning it up. I think my wife went out for the night and I'm, I'm scrolling through my phone looking at different people's names of who I could call just to . Check in with and talk to and making excuses for why I shouldn't call this person.
And that person is, , the different time zone. And, you know, I talked to this person recently. They don't want to listen to me bitch and complain about whatever now. And, and then eventually just like
letting go of that project of reaching out and actually collapsing onto the floor in tears, feeling just alone and isolated.
Yeah. like, knowing that it didn't have to be that way. Even knowing in my mind, I could have called anybody and they would have been so happy to hear from me. And so wanting to support me, but something inside of me, some conditioning as a man, like maybe stop me from doing that. And six months into fatherhood, I didn't feel like I could necessarily start a program for dads. Um, but six years into. it, I did.
And, on top of that, I, as I'm an acupuncturist by trade and I work with a lot of moms, pregnant women, um, doulas birth workers, and I keep hearing from them.
That there's this need that, that, that the dads are showing up and they don't know what they're doing they, they want support, but they don't know where to get it. And then from the moms, just that, like their partners, aren't, aren't showing up in the ways they need them to. And so, between my own internal sense of like, this is
needed and.
I want to do something to, make a difference here and then getting that external feedback, even though it wasn't from dad's directly, but then once I put it out there, it was just like this flood.
I was just blown away. I was thinking we'd have a drop-in group once a month. And I, and I was already in that first month doing it twice a month because of how many people were interested.
[00:16:51] Dave: Yeah. I'm still blown away by that on the one hand, you know, super surprised. And then. and then when I think about it, It's not surprising at all. given what we've been talking just isn't a lot out there.
I remember when I was like a deer in headlights when, when when I was getting ready for my son's birth and, you know, terrified. And the hospital offered daddy bootcamp, which was a bunch of. Deer in headlights, sitting around in a circle, watching someone try to change a diaper.
I mean, it was really, um, good intentioned well-intended you but really didn't provide me with much more than more anxiety about what I was up to. And, and I so appreciate you, sharing that story about reaching out and and I have to say.
As a, I'm a pretty introverted guy and I don't even think about reaching, out, you know, so my wife will ensure that I show up for council fathers and will ensure that you know, if, if I'm going to connect with other dads, she wants to create that opportunity for me. So, yeah, there's clearly. Um, not the kind of natural support out there for it and the clear need for
[00:18:30] Noah: yeah. Yeah. So Dave, so we just kind of outline what this whole council, the fathers thing is, the programs we offer,, why it started, um, why are we doing this podcast and what can people who choose to tune in expect from it?
[00:18:49] Dave: We're doing it because it's fun, fun for us. And. Really, it seems to be a common way that the dads we know, sort of get support. They listen to podcasts and you and I listened to podcasts. It seems to be good parenting strategy to put the headphones on when you're doing something, you know, putting the kids down and you have to be in their room anyway, and you can listen to a podcast while they're falling asleep or. Even running sometimes you and I both run and listen to podcasts, when we run and, and podcasts are little doses of inspiration and information and connection, even, you know, to, my hope is that guys out there, here, these two dads talking about our struggles and our successes and our. journey And feel heard themselves and feel that they can see our journey and in their journey and, you know, get a little shot, a little bolt of I can do this.
[00:20:05] Noah: totally. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I think,
It comes to that sense of connection there are people out there who I feel like I know them, you know, they're, they're like my friends, even though they never met me and maybe I've met them in person, if I'm lucky, but just we can, we can glean wisdom from each other. I hope, that this becomes a multi-directional stream of, you know, I'd like,
love
to be getting comments and emails and, uh, feedback , around what, how this is impacting people as well. Um, suggestions, requests around what people want to hear and get out of, this podcast as well.
If we together get together. hang out,
laugh a little bit, but, but, but are coming from our hearts, maybe that just draws people who are listening a little bit more into their hearts, right. Maybe, maybe they get off listening to this episode they just like feel themselves a little bit more if that happened. I mean, that'd be amazing.
[00:21:08] Dave: Totally. Do you have that experience with other podcasts that you listened to?
[00:21:12] Noah: Yeah. I mean, some podcasts I listened to are heady and full of ideas and get kind of spinning and in a positive way. But there are a couple out there that really, touch me actually emotionally and, um, opened me up in a way that feels valuable. And, those are the podcasts that I find the two really meaningful and interesting conversations with my wife, you know, or meaningful and interesting conversations with a buddy who I'm going for a run with, or a hike with, or even like watching the kids at the playground. Oh, I heard this app, you know, like, yeah. So, um, the stuff that like turns the key of the heart, you know, that's, that's. I also like geeking out on ideas. So yeah,
[00:22:00] Dave: yeah, yeah. You're talking about, the contrast of what we experienced most of our days can be pretty heady can be pretty, reactionary, like we're reacting to, um, you know, driving the kids here and driving. the kids, Gymnastics and martial arts and, you know, the, the life of a taxi driver , and work, can be very sort of heady and idea-based, , and then to take the time to drop in and from a different place you're saying, know, not, not so much from the head, although you and I are both kind of heady guys.
[00:22:47] Noah: That's what our kids need also. I mean, children are the opposite of Hetty, right? Like that's, that's the capacity they're working their way into as they grow up. But zero to seven, the body is the center of gravity, of their experience of life. Right. Emotions and physicality. My four-year-old w when, when I have. like sort of heady conversations my year old, he says, stop talking about this, you know, because it's like, it feels excluded and he can't understand what we're talking about. Right. And he wants to wrestle and he wants to play ball and climb and bike and, you know, and play games. But, um, but he's not interested in. Ideas, right. My seven year old is interested in ideas and, but she's at the beginning of that path and she's still primarily an emotional being right. Who also enjoys being in her body. Right. And, and I think as adults, we forget, I mean, that's one of the best thing about. Kids and being around kids and parenting, is that like, there's such a good reminder that like it's fun to roll around on the floor or to dance like a crazy person or, you know yeah. Just to play and not be so wrapped up in our, in our heads.
[00:24:09] Dave: Yeah. There's such amazing teachers and you know, a hug from my seven-year-old daughter will quickly pull me out of whatever Ideas. I'm lost in and yeah, we we can. So miss the mark sometimes when we're trying to rationalize with our kids and frankly, with each other, you know, and sometimes that's exactly what's called for, but I love what you're saying about how kids can remind us and how we can remind each other. that the head is just one part of the body and and that so much more below the neck to, um, you know, to connect and, and experienced life through.
[00:25:08] Noah: So, I mean, I think we covered our bases. I think anyone out there listening, if this resonates, if this hits a chord, you know, we hope you come back from war. We'd love to hear from you. , and. , please go do, go ahead and subscribe. So you can be notified when the new episodes come out. Anything you want to add?
[00:25:31] Dave: No. I appreciate you. I appreciate all y'all who are listening and let us know if you want it, what you want us to talk about. Cool.
[00:25:43] Noah: All right. Well, have a great rest of your day and we'll see you next time.