Principles for Fatherhood (Part 4)

Join us in the final episode in our Podcast on Principles for Fatherhood series to get more ideas around how to be a dad in a way that works best.

The last 3 Principles of Fatherhood are…

10. Manage Yourself, Not Others

11. There’s More to Your Brain Than You Think

12. There’s No Such Thing as a Bad Dad Joke

Read the entire Transcript below (please note that transcription was preformed by AI and errors may exist):

Principles for Fatherhood (Part 4)

[00:00:00] Noah: Hi, and welcome back to the counsel of fathers podcast. I'm Noah Goldstein. 

[00:00:07] Dave: I'm Dave Benito, 

[00:00:09] Noah: and we are here to talk about all things, fatherhood, 

[00:00:14] Dave: a lot of things, fatherhood, a lot 

[00:00:15] Noah: of things. Fatherhood today we are continuing with the final episode of a four-part series called deep principles for fatherhood. 

[00:00:27] Dave: I'm sorta both excited and a little bit sad.

Cause you know, when you finish a really good book or a really good movie, then it's over or a series a when your, when your TV series is over, 

[00:00:44] Noah: I only hope that comparison is in any way, shape and form. 

[00:00:51] Dave: Uh, 

[00:00:52] Noah: a fitting here that people, besides just us feel sadness, that this series is coming to an end.

[00:00:59] Dave: The good news Noah is there's more episodes, episodes 

[00:01:05] Noah: lots more There's 

[00:01:06] Dave: like life, right? You close something, grieve it. And then you live into the next thing 

[00:01:12] Noah: it is. That is definitely what life is like. 

[00:01:16] Dave: feel better now, 

[00:01:17] Noah: me too. 

[00:01:17] Dave: you for that. 

[00:01:18] Noah: Thank you. 

[00:01:20] Dave: All right. It is part four part four. So we did the first three.

Then we did four through six. Then we last time we did seven through nine. Uh, today must mean principles, 10, 11, and 12. 

[00:01:39] Noah: That's pretty much how numbers were 

[00:01:43] Dave: Like, like, uh, in order chronology, you might call it. Okay. All right. 

[00:01:51] Noah: Um, 

[00:01:52] Dave: deniers in the presence of a mathematician, 

[00:01:54] Noah: Well, know, 

I can count to 12, so, 

[00:02:00] Dave: Okay. Enough delay enough games.

[00:02:04] Noah: Although I like it. I feel like it's, it's, it's lighthearted and jovial, which is tied into what are these 

[00:02:10] Dave: relevant. Doesn't it? 

Well, what's principle number 10. 

[00:02:14] Noah: Principle. Number 10 is to manage yourself, not others. 

[00:02:23] Dave: That sounds a little loaded. 

[00:02:26] Noah: All of these principles are loaded and in some way or another. 

[00:02:32] Dave: Kick us off with what I was thinking.

When, , when I wrote this, 

[00:02:36] Noah: I would love for you to, 

[00:02:37] Dave: then I'd love to hear your thoughts as well. You ever read a book for the second time and you feel like it's a totally different book. I had this experience. There's a book called passionate marriage by David starch. , and I read it probably about 15 years ago and was not married and did not have children.

And, was just interested in relationship and sort of, you know, ways to, Think about relationship, intimate relationship. And then 15 years later I have two children and, I'm in a, a marriage, since 2009 

[00:03:23] Noah: 13 years 

[00:03:25] Dave: Almost, and I re-read the book and it was like, it was like, I never read it before.

[00:03:33] Noah: Is that because you forgot everything or 

[00:03:36] Dave: it's because the reader's different, you know, like I'm looking through different lens. I've got all this experience that I didn't have in terms of relationship and with both my kids and my wife. And there's two things that, really landed for me when I read it this time. there's this exercise that he talks about in the book. called hugging to relax. And you know, the first time I read it, I, I just thought, okay, that's a way that couples can, you know, help each other relax. And it seems like a good practice. And I think that's true as far as it goes, like that seems like a sweet thing to do. But when I re-read it, I realized that he's talking about self-soothing. that as an experiment when you hug your spouse or your child and you stay there long enough, you can feel your body. I mean, you can imagine it right now, right. You can start to feel your body relax in connection with someone. Right. And so I realized, oh my God, he's talking about how much. Is triggered in us in intimate relationships, right?

Like the closer someone is, the more we care about them and the more access they have to our triggers and, and to, and and to awaken emotion and us to elicit emotion and 

[00:05:15] Noah: positive and negative. 

[00:05:16] Dave: totally. But it's like the closer, the relationship, the higher the stakes and. That this exercise is really about how do you work with your nervous system in relationship?

You know? And , that was big for me because it doesn't just apply to relationship. Right. I started, thinking , yeah, throughout the day, , you talk about this exercise in council, fathers around 50 50, like having 50% of one's attention internally and 50% while you're listening to someone.

And, and so I was just all of these opportunities. We have to, uh, work with our own emotions and feelings and nervous system in the moment the go-to is to try and control the environment, right? This anxiety arises in me. I can move away from it. Try and change what's happening. But self soothing is about working with what's happening internally in order to be in relationship with my, my wife and kids.

[00:06:38] Noah: And I I hear the way that is. um, Self-centric in a positive way, right. It's not, you're taking care of yourself instead of trying to make others, uh, just to themselves so that you can feel better. So, you know, if my wife would stop holding me accountable, I wouldn't feel so much disappoint with myself or not following through.

on things. So maybe I could get angry at her and ask her to stop holding me accountable, or I could feel into all of those feelings of shame and disappointment and frustration with myself around myself and deal with that in a more productive way. Right? Like, is that kind of what you're pointing to? 

[00:07:35] Dave: Yeah. If the kids would just get in the car, then I wouldn't feel so anxious about getting them to school on time.

That's true. And how do I, you know, rather than managing them, how do I manage my own internal, my internal, um, work. Uh, and, and particularly we're talking here about the nervous system, you know, how do I work with myself when I'm, uh, feeling a little dysregulated? You know, another example is my, my son, this was he's nine.

Now Ralphie's nine, but this was a few years ago. He was having a hard time falling asleep. 

[00:08:23] Noah: and 

[00:08:25] Dave: It was hard for us. It was really frustrating for, for rich and I to, to sit with him and watch him be so anxious about falling asleep. It was like this anxiety about being anxious. You know, he, he was worried about not being able to fall asleep, you know, the layers of worry.

And I was really proud of rich. She came downstairs and said, I can't do it. I gotta, I got a tag out, which we should have a whole podcast on, you know, like asking for help is such a courageous and affective skill. Anyway, I went up and he was really worked up and I just sort of, was whatever I had the right amount of sleep and caffeine and exercise and whatever.

And I was feeling. Pretty, I was managing my state pretty well, and I just looked at him and I said, Hey buddy, go to sleep. You know, and something about him was willing or something about that moment. He was willing to lay down and try again. And I bring that up because he it's something about going through the.

That allowed him, he had to self-soothe in order to fall asleep. And that's the skill, that's the managing oneself , , that we're getting at is like he was able to do that because he was able to work with his internal state, you know, and fall asleep. Yeah. I mean, 

[00:10:07] Noah: example resonates extremely because Netta our seven month old, we just went through a process.

of Sleep training her. And it was kind of a similar thing where we had to let her know. feel some of the, whatever it was that she's feeling. And we can't put names on it, like anxiety in the same kind of way, because she's seven months old. But, , letting her process and figure out how to fall asleep, Learn, teach yourself essentially.

And, you know, we would let her know, I, , every five minutes, like you're safe, we love you. We're here good night, you know, you're going to figure this out. And, , and she did, and there were one or two nights where it was, it was difficult, but what was more difficult in those two nights was our feelings of, oh my gosh.

You know, like all the stories are we abandoning her. She Is this okay. Is, you know, and then realizing like now she knows how to go to sleep for a nap for bedtime. She, knows how to do that. And that it's, you know, of course you have to deal in these things in an age appropriate, nervous system appropriate kind of way.

But 

[00:11:28] Dave: like, 

[00:11:29] Noah: you know, just recognizing , you can be a little bit uncomfortable for a little while and it. it It's okay. And, you know, you know that, that, we love you and that we care about you, and that we would never let anything bad happen to you. Right. Even at seven months, she can understand that. And, you know, and I, just have to give a shout out here to Janet Lansbury.' , and I can't remember that author of that other book, but I'll put it in the show notes who really helped us kind of figure this all out. , , yeah, so. 

[00:12:01] Dave: Yeah. And regardless, you know, there's, there's different feelings about, you know, sleep training out there and there's different techniques and all that.

But I think what the point that you're making is that your hope is to help NAFTA learn to self-soothe. And in order to do that, you and Rachel had to self sooth. I feel like I want to remind everyone that you have. Are married to women with the same name, 

[00:12:34] Noah: We might have to remind people frequently. exactly. Yeah. That'd be had to deal with that discomfort of listening to our daughter cry 

[00:12:44] Dave: and, and I love the word deal, right?

Like, and even maybe manage isn't the best word, you know? But like, we're not you and I, aren't talking about white knuckling. We're not talking about, uh, grinning and bearing wear, which is something. 

[00:12:59] Noah: I think, 

[00:13:00] Dave: , we're taught, countlessly growing up to, suck it up. That's different from being with something difficult, sitting through it and calming yourself down through it.

Right. We're talking about a skill. I'm calling it self soothing. That's what David snarky calls it, you know? 

[00:13:25] Noah: but I'm really 

[00:13:27] Dave: Picturing not trying to get rid of a feeling by, by controlling your environment and rather being willing to sit with a feeling while working with your own nervous system, calming yourself down, seems to be a really important skill for both being a kid and being a.

Yeah. I mean, 

[00:13:53] Noah: since we're on the topic. I do think 

[00:13:55] Dave: that, 

[00:13:56] Noah: Like just maybe some tangible examples, of self-soothing like self-talk can be, we can be all are familiar with our negative self-talk, but you know, we can use self-talk as a way to self-sooth right. I can do this or,, , 

[00:14:14] Dave: Everything's going to be okay.

[00:14:15] Noah: , just kind of 

[00:14:17] Dave: helping yourself 

[00:14:19] Noah: work through, , I can handle these feelings, , breathing is another good self-soothing technique that comes to mind for me. Like, okay. you know, taking deep breaths, stretching to slow your breathing down. Um, and then the other one I, I often, 

[00:14:35] Dave: Okay, 

[00:14:35] Noah: go into is like, is just shaken out, shaken out my body, just, , dogs do this a bazillion times a day and just sort of standing up and shaking and breathing.

Yeah. Do you have anything else that comes to mind in terms of like, since we're on the topic? I feel like it's only fair if we make some suggestions here. 

[00:14:53] Dave: Yeah. , the one that I guess comes to mind is.

Sort of like remembering, , what's most important in the moment, , which I think comes with practice, , and it's similar to self-talk, but it's almost like a perspective taking, being able to, um, remember that I am. My emotions that are arising. I am not these thoughts that are popping up.

I am watching these thoughts and emotions come through in the moment. And I, I do think that that has taken me a lot of practice to get there, but it definitely provides a little bit of wiggle room, a little bit of space to have attention. Um, Nervous system, not just be caught up in the thoughts and emotions.

[00:15:46] Noah: Yeah. That, I mean, yes. So I'm hearing you describe sort of like a mindfulness practice in a way, just observing, being with it. 

[00:15:58] Dave: I 

[00:15:58] Noah: trying to change it. Um, but not being like in it in a totally merged with it, The, if the feeling right. It's like when you. There's there's moments when we're totally like, we're just being the anger in a hundred percent. Right. That's when we sort of lose control. And I say, we let I'm talking about myself. Versus like feeling, oh my gosh, there's a lot of anger in my system, you know, and I, and I can feel it, , but I'm also like watching it in a way. 

[00:16:30] Dave: Yeah. Yeah. And I think with self soothing , and, , , Um, working with your nervous system in the moment, there's an aspect of intentionally placing my attention on something, right?

, maybe that's the same as observing, but I'm just, right now I'm sort of talking, but I'm also,, my I'm placing my attention on my back and my shoulders and,, my exp. Um, my experience in the moment, you know, sorta the 50, 50 thing you talk about, it's like intentionally paying attention to my inner process is in and of itself a self-soothing mechanism, you know, 

[00:17:15] Noah: Right. It helps 

[00:17:16] Dave: it integrate 

[00:17:16] Noah: the nervous system?

, 

so I, I, um, I recognize. that. We're spending a good deal of time on this one. And I want to, there was one other piece to this whole manage yourself, or just a story, actually. , 

[00:17:32] Dave: tell us, tell us a story. 

[00:17:33] Noah: the story, well, , this goes back to before Rachel and I had kids. The, , it was my last year of grad school and her first year of grad school.

So we were both in grad school at the same time for this one. It was a really stressful year for, all. I mean, we're adjusting to being married in a new home together, we had roommates , we were getting into a lot of fights, 

, 

like big ugly fights. And, , there were a couple of behaviors that I had. 

[00:18:08] Dave: That 

[00:18:10] Noah: we're leading some of these fights. One of them was I was actually, I would actually lie to Rachel, these small, you know, arguably like, did you walk the dog? Oh yeah. And, and I, didn't even know, , why did yes. Come out of my mouth? When she asked that, knowing that I didn't, but 

[00:18:28] Dave: you're like, who said that, 

[00:18:29] Noah: you know, or, and the other thing was that I would say I was going to do something and then I wouldn't actually follow.

through on. And you could, we could get granular and say, well, I didn't say when I was going to do, it, but the point is, is said, I would take the trash out, the trash wasn't out. And like, this 

[00:18:45] Dave: was, this was a big 

[00:18:46] Noah: big thing as we were fighting a lot. And I, and I was like, oh, well, we should go to couples counseling. Right. That's, that's the solution we're fighting with each other.

We should go to a couples counselor 

[00:18:59] Dave: makes sense. 

[00:19:00] Noah: And she said, no, You need to go to a therapist to deal with your shit. And, And I did, and I was a little bit skeptical that me doing my own work without us doing our work together. Right. in partnership could lead to changes, but it, but it did. And, um, I can't, , go into all the details of, or at least not right now, given our timeline and whatnot, but, it was a really, it was a really powerful and empowering, um, experience for, for me in terms of dealing with, and I, I sort of alluded it to two before, but they dealing with the uncomfortable feelings of being held accountable. , and learning, learning how to yeah. Do a better job around that. And, , 

[00:20:02] Dave: owning, 

[00:20:04] Noah: owning these places where I was not showing up the way I want it to be showing up the way my partner needed me to show up. And rather than 

[00:20:17] Dave: like, 

[00:20:19] Noah: Blaming it on the 

[00:20:21] Dave: relationship. Right. 

[00:20:24] Noah: Managing myself, not the relationship.

Right. 

[00:20:29] Dave: Like, nice. I love that. Yeah. Sometimes, sometimes the answer is . Working on something together. Right? 

[00:20:37] Noah: Sure. I didn't want to like say that there's never a time and a place for a couple to go together to couples counseling, but 

[00:20:43] Dave: but sometimes. Prob probably all the time, there is something in there for, for me, right.

Turn the turn the w upside down, you know, from we, to me. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I love, he says, , you know, that he says we should stop working on our marriages and let our marriages work on us, you know? And that's, that's a beautiful way I think, to be in relationship to use. Our relationships as feedback and, and not in a heavy handed way, not like, you know, we have to be really careful not to be judgemental with that.

You know, like, , when stuff comes up in relationship, , the hope is like, oh good. Now I've got something to work on rather than , oh, I still. Perfect. You know, that's not so helpful. Yeah. Well, there's much more to be said 

[00:21:44] Noah: about that, 

[00:21:45] Dave: we have another principal in the queue just waiting for us to unpack, to let out of the back.

[00:21:52] Noah: Okay. 

[00:21:53] Dave: So number 11 is there's more to your brain than you think 

[00:22:00] Noah: ain't that the truth more to the brain than you think? 

[00:22:07] Dave: Do you want me to, 

[00:22:09] Noah: Yeah. um, I can, I can dive in in, on this one first. , so first of all, I think it's, it's almost loaded that, that we we go in with this more to your brain than you think, because yeah. Your brain houses, your. emotion. 

[00:22:30] Dave: Yes. 

[00:22:32] Noah: In addition to all of your sensorial input and an output and, , and we have a tendency in our culture to live as thinking creatures and forget that we have bodies Or that our bodies like take us from one place. You know, they're, they're about bringing our brain around Um, 

and then often we

don't 

[00:23:00] Dave: consciously 

[00:23:03] Noah: experience our emotions. How often do you ask someone? Like, wha you know, how do you feel about that? And then they tell you a story. They, start to talk. it, They,, they tell you thoughts. 

[00:23:16] Dave: even say, well, I think 

[00:23:18] Noah: right, in response to how do you feel, or they say, I feel like this is bullshit.

[00:23:24] Dave: Right. 

[00:23:24] Noah: like, Okay. So you feel angry or, you know, but, and, and so, to me, a big part of this principle has to do.

with Integrating more of ourselves into our lived experience, which includes learning about exploring, feeling into our emotions in a more full way, because emotions are actually driving a lot more than our behaviors. Then we want to maybe acknowledge and a lot more of our decisions. Right. We think we thought through this in a rational, logical way, but we, um, Well, there were emotions driving that thinking process and, and then our, brains also integrate all of our bodily experiences.

Right. And so. I think that also can be a huge source of information around 

[00:24:23] Dave: what 

[00:24:24] Noah: we want and you need 

[00:24:26] Dave: and 

[00:24:27] Noah: how we can respond to a situation. 

[00:24:29] Dave: Yeah. One of my favorite authors, as you know, is James Hollis. He's a, he's a union author. And,, he says that. 

[00:24:38] Noah: The 

[00:24:38] Dave: The conscious thinking mind, he calls it a, a thin wafer on a, vast iridescent.

See, he know that that imagery is, is stunning. , to think. 

[00:24:54] Noah: that 

[00:24:55] Dave: The way we generally walk around perceiving the world and our thoughts and our beliefs and the way we sort of frame the world is such a small percentage of, , the mind's capability. There's so much that we're unaware of, , and , .

, one message in that is, of humility. Like I don't got it all figured out, you know? And so, uh, Le leaving room for, , I might have a couple of blind spots here and there, ,, but also how much unseen potential there is. . ,. All of a sudden an insight pops up, , or all of a sudden an understanding or an idea.

I love that, , that we aren't limited to our thinking either, right? There's this huge. 

[00:25:49] Noah: uh, 

[00:25:50] Dave: Vast sea of possibility and potential within us that , , gives me hope and, and , excitement about the day what's what's gonna come up today, you know? And, and in, in parenting,, one trap is thinking I have it figured out, , getting locked into my view as a father,.

[00:26:10] Noah: but 

[00:26:11] Dave: You know, to relax a little and think, Hey, there's, there's some stuff in me that, um, I don't even know that comes out and I'm like, Hey, I handled that pretty well. Like there's, there's hope out there, , there's, um, we're, we're greater than we think as dads, , I think that's important to remember.

 , when. Was becoming a father for the first time I, I contacted my dad and I said, Hey dad, do you have any advice? Really put them on the spot. He said something like, you know, son, only 5% of what you do as a father is important, but you never know which 5% you got to give it. Your all, , And I sorta reminds me of that.

Like, , I think there's some wisdom in,, both the humility and the sort of hope around there's more to this than you think. Yeah. 

[00:27:13] Noah: I really appreciate that. I think one of the things. that Has helped me maybe expand my understanding of my brain or, you know, experience of life has been altered states of consciousness, right? Well, so 

[00:27:34] Dave: how far down the rabbit hole are we 

[00:27:36] Noah: I'm sure that brings up a lot of things for a lot of people, but, um, specifically I'm, I'm speaking of the altered state of consciousness that I experienced that arises within me when I get 

acupuncture 

Um, and I'm an acupuncturist by trade.

And so I get a lot of acupuncture and I've gotten a lot and. , There's something about like the energetic shifts that happen that allow, I think more access to the subconscious and that stabilize my nervous system in a way that allows me to dip into things that might otherwise overwhelm me. . And so, um, there are other ways of altering our states of consciousness, whether it's drum beats or and theologians.

Um, and B could maybe devote an more talk to that at some point, but, um, yeah, I just felt were worth mentioning. . Cause if we are talking about the brain and the nervous system and there being more to it than you think, then. 

[00:28:45] Dave: Well, and you mentioned, , meditation and, , dreams and,.

These ways in which we can accelerate the, access or, ,, learn from that fast. See, , , certainly, , therapy is a place where, , I guess. So many insights seemingly out of, out of nowhere, just from dialogue, , coaching is another place where, um, people tend to have a ha wow.

, so many ways to, to access. And I think another way that we talk about, helping people get clear on, , Their purpose,, that's another loaded term, but this maybe intuition, uh, some, , voice inside that, that nine, , reminder that, um, there's something I'm here to do and yeah.

When I get closer to it, I, I feel aligned. And when I move away from it, you know, we, we tend to help people get clear on their values as one way to move towards that. , all these ways in which, , that are beyond the thinking mind that are that's accessible, , and so helpful as a, as a dad.

[00:30:02] Noah: Okay. Should we move on to. a Principle number 12, 

[00:30:07] Dave: is we saved for last, because of course it is the most important, 

[00:30:12] Noah: the most important. 

[00:30:13] Dave: I didn't want to, , the other 11 are, are important, but this is the most important wouldn't you say? Yes. 

[00:30:20] Noah: I would also say it's the most serious The heaviest, yeah. 

[00:30:24] Dave: down people if you're, if 

[00:30:26] Noah: you're walking, or doing dishes. or driving, you might want to pull over 

[00:30:31] Dave: is. Principle number 12. There's no such thing as a bad dad joke. Hey Noah. Yeah. What do you call a bear with? No teeth 

[00:30:45] Noah: toothless bear 

[00:30:47] Dave: a gummy bear. 

[00:30:50] Noah: Ooh, That's a good one. That's a good one. 

[00:30:53] Dave: What is the, what is a baby computer?

Call his father.

Yeah. Data, get it, get it. 

[00:31:06] Noah: What type of hat does a camera where. 

[00:31:09] Dave: Tell me what kind of cat does a camera? Where 

[00:31:12] Noah: a lens cap 

[00:31:15] Dave: lens cap. Oh man. Should we just keep going for the rest of the no, no, no, no. We could. I think the point here, you know, when, when we wrote this, there's no such thing as a bad dad joke because you know how important humor is to parenting, ?

Yeah. Like, totally. Yeah. I mean, it's like we can be so serious about our lives sometimes, and there's, there's plenty to be serious about. I mean, You know, the world's kinda messed up, you know, and, and yet my fondest memories of my father as a kid are, are making him laugh, you know, or like reading the funny papers with him or, , yeah, watching something funny.

And I was just , I have a felt sense of him laughing, , and me laughing with him. And there's a message in there about life, ? Sometimes, , it's sorta like modeling. He modeled for me that life can be just joyful, you know, there's there's joy and laughing. 

[00:32:27] Noah: Yeah. 

[00:32:28] Dave: And what an 

[00:32:29] Noah: activity. 

[00:32:30] Dave: totally.

Yeah. What a connecting with joy, right. 

[00:32:35] Noah: Yeah. 

[00:32:37] Dave: And then a whole useful humor can be as a father, , , well, things are getting intense in here. , let's lighten things up, you know, , little self-deprecating, , humor goes a long way, right? They'll stumble fall, like good, uh, slapstick physical humor.

Yeah, I can shift my kids out of whatever state of consciousness they're in. They're fixated on something. It can shift me, , sometimes I hock it so serious. And then I sort of looked down on myself and I'm like, dude, lighten up. And you know, and I can just , Bust out, laughing in the middle of dinner and you'll feel this relief in the air, you know?

[00:33:22] Noah: Yeah. I love having tickle parties. Those just , it's just, it's also a catharsis actually, you know, like there's a way in which laughter , 

something, I get a lot from my. kids. Is, our, are you laughing or are you crying? Right? Cause there's a similar nervous system level kind of thing going on there. But, , I just think that it it's, it's a release it's and it's a way of connecting and it's something that, that comes from the heart and it does Brighton and, and connect.

I think in Chinese medicine, we have these, , phrases around how different emotions. 

[00:34:03] Dave: That's 

[00:34:04] Noah: W what their impact, or their emotion, energetic motion is. And , they see that laughter scatters that she writes a, when we're serious and everything's dense and hard and heavy, right. Laughter kind of gets it moving and opens it up, and disperses that that density.

And 

[00:34:25] Dave: I could feel that. Yeah, that's sweet. 

[00:34:28] Noah: it is. 

[00:34:29] Dave: The other thing that I love about dad jokes in particular, , was thinking about like the difference between a dad joke and like a Jerry Seinfeld joke is , dad jokes are imperfect, you know, they're not they're not like polished and, , there's sort of this response to it, like a ha ha.

Yeah, very funny. , and I liked that. It's not like even the joking. We could take too far and try to make it a perfection project, , but, but this is just levity, , 

[00:34:59] Noah: like how many, how many 

[00:35:00] Dave: do you think it takes 

[00:35:02] Noah: to make an octopus laugh? 

[00:35:05] Dave: Tell me 

[00:35:05] Noah: 10 tickles, 

[00:35:08] Dave: tickles 

[00:35:11] Noah: Eight arms, but it's tentacles. 

[00:35:16] Dave: That's great. 

. Well, well what do you call someone?

What do you call someone, but nobody and no knows. Nobody knows.

Um, which which day is our strongest, 

[00:35:40] Noah: Um, 

[00:35:41] Dave: Saturday and Sunday, the rest are weekdays. Uh, yeah, that's the guy. That's a dad joke, right? You're like, ah, it's not funny, but, but, but it's light. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think dads have the screen. Potential and opportunity to, , to bring humor to relationships. And, you know, humor is just such an important when you talk about scattering, she like Gotti.

Yeah. We, we have to do that right now in the middle of crises and pandemics and, uh, We got to remember to laugh and remind our kids to laugh. And, , . I love hearing dads talk about being goofy and, and, , making parenting fun. 

[00:36:44] Noah: wait a second. This is allowed to be fun. 

[00:36:49] Dave: That's a serious job. 

[00:36:51] Noah: a serious job. We're Raising the future. of the world, 

[00:36:55] Dave: But it's too serious to be taken seriously. It's too important to be taken seriously or something like that. No such thing as a bad dad, joke, 

[00:37:07] Noah: levity, humor, connection, are vital ingredients for, for parenting for life, really. 

[00:37:17] Dave: But.

[00:37:21] Noah: So, um, that I think kind of wraps us up with 

[00:37:26] Dave: principles 

[00:37:27] Noah: 10, 11, and 12. Hopefully this has been a useful, meaningful, , enjoyable series of podcasts. And, uh, we're looking forward to, to bring in your. more 

[00:37:44] Dave: Yeah, looking forward to it. Thanks for joining us and hanging out with us. Hopefully you, you had some fun too.

[00:37:51] Noah: Yeah. And If you did have fun, you did enjoy it. It was meaningful. , please feel free to share it with somebody else who 

[00:37:58] Dave: might like it. You know, you could 

[00:38:00] Noah: text it to them right now, texting them this episode, or one of the other ones or email, or, , you could subscribe to the show. So you get notifications. and you could leave a rating, preferably a five-star rating, , and uh, also feel free to email us@connectatcounciloffathers.com. If you have any feedback, suggestions, ideas, questions. 

[00:38:26] Dave: jokes, dad jokes. 

[00:38:28] Noah: Yeah. And help us. Yeah, help us get the, get the word out and keep this thing going. And, um, thank you for listening. See you next time.