Fathering with Soul
This episode tackles a big topic - soul. Noah and Dave discuss how fathers can live authentic, soulful, lives that in turn foster this ineffable essence in our children as they navigate the pressures of conformity. They provide specific practices that are helpful for the soul’s journey.
Warning - there is a short but controversial discussion in this podcast about the origins of the Toothfairy that may not be appropriate for children.
Resources mentioned:
Soulcraft: Crossing into the Mysteries of Nature and Psyche by Bill Plotkin
The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran
Don’t Stop Believin’ by Journey
https://www.livingandworkingonpurpose.com/ - Dave’s psychotherapy website
https://www.heartseedhealth.com/ - Noah’s acupuncture and coaching website
Full Transcript: (please note transcription was done with A.I. and most certainly contains errors)
What is Soulful Fatherhood
[00:00:00] Noah: Hi, and welcome to the council of fathers podcast. We're bringing a heartful perspective to this wild journey we call fatherhood I'm Noah
[00:00:10] Dave: I'm Dave.
[00:00:11] Noah: And, uh, thanks for joining us.
[00:00:14] Dave: and Welcome back. My friends. back to the show that never ends.
[00:00:20] Noah: Well, hopefully I am. We'll see about that.
[00:00:23] Dave: so glad you could have.
[00:00:25] Noah: Um, today. We're going to embark on a journey of, , discussing, exploring what we call soulful fathering.
[00:00:38] Dave: soulful,
,
what are you, what do you mean by that? now? What do you mean
[00:00:43] Noah: I mean by self
[00:00:44] Dave: I love? How we pick these lights? sort of fluffy topics.
[00:00:49] Noah: Oh yeah.
[00:00:50] Dave: on soul today. Show.
[00:00:52] Noah: Yeah.
[00:00:54] Dave: Okay
[00:00:54] Noah: not now, then when
[00:00:56] Dave: next time. now let's do it now,
[00:00:59] Noah: but it doesn't. I mean, it doesn't have to be heavier, dark, or, , overly, , dense, you know, it can be playful and uplifting and jovial even.
[00:01:16] Dave: Okay. Well, where do you want to start? How about, like, what do you mean when you, say soulful fathering? That seems like a good place to start.
[00:01:27] Noah: that does seem like a great place to start? So, Dave, what do you mean?
[00:01:31] Dave: I see how you do that. I see how you are. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, let's start with this, big word soul, right. Um, Uh, it's important to me. It's important to,
you. I know. and it's important to the work we're doing. , and , I guess in the broadest, terms, , I just see that as something, , underneath , our conditioning and,, Underneath the thinking and the surface. emotions That there's something deeper in us, that, , we're born with, and,, , I might call it , one's, essence. , and.
there's sort of two layers that we talk about And I think we want to cover today. One is , how do we, as parents who are. trying to guide our kids And trying to educate our kids, and trying to, you know, help shape people in the world. How do we set the stage? for that True essence to emerge when. a lot of parenting, seems to be about conforming to rules, and, societal. norms. Like, how do we achieve a, balance there between helping our kids make it in the world, and set the stage for them to be who they truly uniquely. are. And then I think the other level we want to, talk about it. how do we do that as fathers? How do we model that for our kids? You know, A lot of the dads that come to us and a lot of folks that come to see me for therapy Are struggling with symptoms that arise from being misaligned from the Truest self or their most. authentic self, you know, there's a lifetime, especially, men in their, second chapter, or second half of their lives that are, working to recover something that they lost. in their journey to be good professionals. Good husbands. Good fathers.
[00:03:51] Noah: That was beautiful and great. And you've got my, my mind swirling and whirling and, and my heart, , bubbling. And, , I think my, my soul is whispering in there too. ,
[00:04:02] Dave: now,
[00:04:05] Noah: , yeah, I think that. your description of your definition of soul? Kind of very much aligns with what I think of when I think of soul in terms of a quality that
[00:04:20] Dave: is,
[00:04:20] Noah: the essence of , what, when is
so there's a way in which, , the world we live in, , there's these layers and one of the. Where's the layers exist is from the most material and concrete and, ,
[00:04:40] Dave: form
quality. Right.
[00:04:42] Noah: You know, like my skin and hair and bones and blood to more subtle spaces. And so for instance, my thoughts, my feelings, , my energetic body.
It's like another layer. That's, it's not concrete. You can't touch it, but it's still in existence and it's still very much a part of life and living. And then, you know, even more subtle there
[00:05:12] Dave: are
[00:05:12] Noah: quality's . And, and one of those qualities I would call soul . You know, I'm trained as an acupuncturist.
And part of our training is to really understand this concrete, physical body that we're all in and the musculature and the biochemistry of our blood. And, just on a very physical, gross quote-unquote level.
And then we also learn about this energetic system and how it works, how it flows, what's going on, how it interfaces with the physiology and as part of the training and my fortunate experience involved, becoming more sensitive to it. Right. And, , the same way, like a small yak and really tastes every flavor of the wine and, get a sense for the, full sort of details that we can't without training ourselves to taste for that can't taste.
you know, as alternative medical practitioner I've learned to send, through touch through other ways, these energetic qualities. Right. And I think that we can, we can all learn that as a, as a skill, the same way anybody could, , go to a Somalia school, so to speak and like learn how to really taste more, , nuanced flavors. and I think we can also all learn to sense into an attuned to some of those deeper qualities, uh,
[00:06:57] Dave: yeah,
[00:06:57] Noah: including soul, but our culture does not by any means, emphasize that realm of existence , we tend to hyper-focus on, , The more material world and maybe that's starting to change. Um, hopefully it's starting to change, but yeah.
[00:07:21] Dave: Yeah. Your, your soul 1 0 1 class in, in high school. Didn't quite cut it for you. Yeah, the education system is very much. focused on skills, technical skills, the material world, and. It's interesting to have, the Kids sitting in the classroom, with a very real inner world experience, and very little guidance.
on how to navigate.
[00:07:49] Noah: Well, it's funny that you made that joke about my soul one-on-one class,
[00:07:55] Dave: because
[00:07:57] Noah: I happened to go to an Orthodox Jewish day school as a young kid. So pre pre-K through
[00:08:07] Dave: fourth grade
[00:08:09] Noah: and was there for immersed in a field. Hmm, that not only recognized and acknowledged that there is a spirit or soul realm to reality, but actively encouraged, invited, guided the development of a relationship with that realm.
And. You know, I'm able to look back at it as an adult. Who's done a lot of work from this perspective, and I'm sure you could look at it and say, oh, it was all rote. And you were just, you know, and I think religion on a whole, in more progressive liberal cultures can get a bad rap. Um, and there certainly is dogma that goes along with it that has, uh, Constraining qualities and
[00:09:09] Dave: patients. It's good. The thing we're not talking to a progressive liberal audience right now.
[00:09:14] Noah: but, uh, but I just, I I'm I'm aware or at least my sense is that, ,
[00:09:20] Dave: that
[00:09:22] Noah: environment for me as a child played a role in my relationship to my own, , Life
[00:09:33] Dave: and in our world,
that's beautiful. That's a real gift.
that you had. Yeah. And in some ways, you know, maybe what the work you've been doing in your adult life is like revisiting, things you were studying back then , sort of trying to unlearn.
everything else in a way, So.
Noah, where should we start?
Should we start with? the man in the mirror?
[00:09:58] Noah: I think so. I think so, because if, if we're going to head towards, how do we support our children in, in their, , relationship with their own soulful qualities,
[00:10:11] Dave: Yeah.
[00:10:12] Noah: part of that's going to be modeling and. Yeah. Part of that's going to be our . Our own ability to even recognize that maybe we have to know it in ourselves.
Yeah.
[00:10:24] Dave: Yeah. And at a very basic level, how do we as fathers
see through, underneath, past our kids' behavior,
uh, to something greater something innate, something meaningful that's trying to emerge and not. Make it wrong, , and, and try to,
overly shape mold behavior.
[00:10:55] Noah: I'm going to just introduce here. Um, bill Plotkin, , who is the.
[00:11:01] Dave: and
[00:11:01] Noah: Credible person who, and I dunno what he calls himself an eco depth psychologist he's written.
[00:11:08] Dave: some of my favorite words, by the way.
[00:11:10] Noah: Yeah. Eco depth. Psychology. Yeah. , he's written a number of books. His first one was called soul craft, , which is full of practices that one can engage in to help them cultivate their own relationship with . So. And, ,
his second book was called nature and the human soul. ,
[00:11:32] Dave: he's a big fan of this word
[00:11:33] Noah: yes he is. And he has created this eco soul centric model of human development. And, you know, it's of layered on some of the more traditional and classical models of human development. But the only reason I'm bringing this up is because each phase.
Of life in his teaching, has two tasks,
[00:12:04] Dave: uh,
[00:12:04] Noah: cultural task and a nature based task. .
And.
[00:12:09] Dave: so
[00:12:10] Noah: This, cultural task, for a kid is learning the ins and outs of what's right and wrong, how they're, how they can behave and how they can't behave and in certain circumstances and . But then that nature-based task always has something to do with one's connection to soul and spirit, , often with nature as a vehicle.
Or holding space for that process. And again, going back to our current arc with the culture that we all live in, you know, really recognizes those cultural tasks sometimes even, distorts them into versions of that task that, don't honor who a person is. And completely ignores these nature based tasks.
[00:13:01] Dave: Yeah. Part of what I hear you saying is we all have to conform to society
to social norms and , in order to be a part of a community.
it seems we have to,, compromise our true self at times. And there is sort of a,
a false self that develop.
In order to interact with the world It's, makes sense. It's logical. It's survival. It helps us maintain connections, , it sounds like plaque Ken's model is, is encouraging This other piece that has been very neglected , the stronger my sense of my authentic self is The more choice I have.
in how I want to, , put different masks on it becomes a choice,
rather than something that is reflective or.
my only option, you know, so I really like that
model of maybe compensating for what our societies aren't.
set up to teach us,? And so to come back to this, how do We as fathers also help compensate, , for our children. And the first step,
we're suggesting is start with the man in the mirror , Seeing, that, you know, rather than working on our kids, how do we let our kids work,
on us, right?
So, , I see my kids behaving in a way that upsets me? There's two things going on there. At least there's a million things. going on, but The two things that I'm pointing to are, are behavior, in other and feeling in self. And So the sort of unconscious move is to control the behavior, get my kids to stop behaving in a way I don't like get them to start behaving. in a way I do.
Like Then I feel better.
My inner world, it feels better, but I think what we're suggesting. is There's work there for me, there is my own inner work to do when I am triggered by my children. And. You know, one move is to take that to my therapist. , and to start getting curious about where that trail head leads. What unfinished business from my childhood.
is coming up in a desire to control.
my child.
[00:15:40] Noah: And so this is kind of raising a question for me, , which is how do you differentiate. Between
psychological quote, unquote work, work on the psyche. And so,, and work to connect with the soul.
[00:15:59] Dave: Uh, You know, it depends on the therapist, but, just to name that psyche is the Greek word for soul psychotherapy. means care of The soul. And so if you have a therapist that , sees the world through that view, then the work that you bring to your therapist is about. uncovering meaning.
purpose. Deep unconscious Material that may be driving my triggers,
or . playing out the way, it should, . You know, there's this parallel process here. My, My kids are acting out,
That's one way to put it, you know, acting out, but it's also possible that their souls are acting. out. You know, There's there's something that's being expressed. That's important. , I always used to say that, like, I love that my daughter, is so fiery and so strong and independent and willfully. outside of the home, I love that she's way outside of the home. It's when she's around me, that I'd love for her to be docile and loving and calm.
And you know, so um, the parallel there is that there's something happening from me in that moment. That may be some childhood wounds. It may also be. I'm misaligned with something internally and that is causing me, agitation. you know, I think the example that I've been using a lot is that
I was in a career for a long time, That was really meaningful to me and on some level it was a mismatch for my.
calling in life.
It was Feeding a lot, mostly things in the material realm that you were talking about, not so much in the more subtle realms that you were talking about. and, the tension between what I think my purpose is in the. life. and What I was doing. That tension was growing and it was surfacing. in my interactions with my kids. I was irritable.
I'm never irritable anymore, by the way, I was, uh, I was tired.
you know? And, um, And so I had to get real honest with myself. Yeah. Make a move to try to.
be more in line with what, What I'm meant to be doing
which is what
speaking on podcasts with my friend, Noah and the father's work that we're doing, And. doing psychotherapy. . Caring for the soul. Yeah.
Comes full circle. Doesn't it? Yeah. So I think a lot of dads come to us and they're experiencing a bit of of soul. And I think that a common experience when you have, when all of a sudden you're married and you have kids and you have a career and you're dealing with a pandemic and you're dealing with
school districts and, you know, medical systems and government and news and it all,
is overwhelming. And.
[00:19:43] Noah: and you feel alone in that. And you. Experience yourself as embedded in a community of people who are in contact with those more meaningful things. And likely it goes back further than becoming a father. And, you know, there's just. Pieces of ourselves that we left behind along the way. And, uh, and it is, it is a journey.
[00:20:20] Dave: Yeah. So this level of just, you know, as, as fathers, how do we. develop a relationship with that deeper part of us,
an intentional relationship, , And I'd love to hear you speak a little bit about that, you know, maybe even about what plaque and recommends, but what are some of those practices that help us
connect to, uh, authentic self is another term I'm using?
you know, sort of interchangeably and maybe I'm mixing metaphors here, but
No, I
what I think, of
[00:20:52] Noah: I think that that, um, resonates for me as well.
[00:20:56] Dave: It's
[00:20:57] Noah: I think.
[00:20:58] Dave: just
[00:20:59] Noah: Got back from a retreat that I went on by myself with myself. Um, it was my birthday gift from Rachel, which was really sweet and exactly what I needed. And I think that, that alone, right. Just spending time with oneself unplugged.
Was a journal with some books. And with the set of practices that I have. And so I can share some of those.
In general to connect with soul, to, to access or to access that quality, right?
The w we need to shift our consciousness. Um, we need to step away from our day to day. Typical thinking mind, , , into a sort of state of mind, that's just a little bit
[00:21:49] ZOOM0009_Tr1: less
[00:21:51] Noah: gripping and a little bit more open, spacious, wonderful. Full of wonder. ,
[00:21:59] Dave: and,
[00:22:02] Noah: and so like some of the more simple things, you know, there's hiking and then there's wandering in nature.
There is finding a random rock that just like has a vibe and sitting on it and just staring at the sky, you know, there's, um, there's journaling of , I'm going to make these lists and I'm going to ch you know, and then there's just a more meandering journaling. There's, you know, art, right. It's like, oh, I had this idea.
I'm going to make this , piece that. . And then there's just. Grabbing some colored pencils or Kranz or paints and not thinking, you know, and you know, maybe you're sitting with a question that you're meditating on or maybe Ben just letting stuff pour out onto the page or like flow. Right. Um, There is music and just letting music take you into another realm.
And maybe that involves you moving with the music. Some might call that type of moving with music, dance. Um, but just seeing what emerges, , through the applications of, of the sounds of the beat of the. Melodies. , those are, those are some of the more simple things. , there's dialoguing with nature with natural world, you know, just speaking out loud, what's going on, , prayer is certainly a gateway or song.
If prayers uncomfortable, right. Meditation can be, but meditation can also be dislike practice
[00:23:42] Dave: that we
[00:23:43] Noah: try to do. And so there's lots of different kinds of meditation. So, I mean, those are just, yeah, a handful and there's many more. Um,
[00:23:52] Dave: I love how you described that And in each one, you're describing a, a
way in which you are setting the stage.
for something. Unseen to emerge.
Yeah.
Which is what we're talking about trying to set up for our kids
[00:24:12] Noah: unseen and unknown.
[00:24:14] Dave: Yeah.
[00:24:15] Noah: Which can be scary.
[00:24:16] Dave: Yeah. And seems to be hard to get at with
sort of the goal directed intention that,
we, we are so familiar with and that we're taught
[00:24:27] Noah: and it requires an element of surrender. And I think that is one of the points of friction that can exist is that,, we have all these ideas around who we are and what we are and what matters about who we are and what matters about our role in the world. And sometimes those things align very much with that deeper.
Sometimes we've managed to be following a thread in our lives very well. And we're living out this path that's really aligned and other times there's parts of our identity. Being a provider in a certain way, or having a certain profession or, you know, being a community member in a certain way, or,, who knows like that, that we just really are like, yeah, this is, this is who I am.
This is what I've always been. And, um, and sometimes that's, that gets in the way of whatever needs to emerge to be able to emerge and, and letting go of that can be uncomfortable. To say the least and, um, and sometimes painful, ,
[00:25:43] Dave: scary,
[00:25:44] Noah: scary for sure. Cause then you eat because often there is a liminal place where you're left kind of like, well, I, I like I let go of that, but I don't really have a clear answer yet.
And now I'm just floating and I don't really feel like I'm who I thought I was anymore, but I.
[00:26:02] Dave: I
[00:26:02] Noah: I don't also have clarity around who I am becoming or what I'm becoming. And I have no indication of a timeline, right? This could be a process that's weeks, long that's months long, most likely that's years long.
And right. And it's not, you're not always fully stuck in the fullness of the. Confusion or mystery right there. I think there's a tab touching in and touching out in moments where answers come in a moments where questions come and, um, but the soul likes journeys.
[00:26:38] Dave: So
is that a fact, does it like the band,
[00:26:44] Noah: maybe your soul,
[00:26:45] Dave: I bet. Oh, of course
[00:26:47] Noah: mean, who doesn't, who doesn't like the band journey.
[00:26:50] Dave: right. Yeah, I was thinking it was funny. I was thinking about, when we were, when I was prepping for today, I was thinking about a lot about music, you know, soul music,
and, and, uh, , Aretha Franklin the queen of soul
and, , James Brown, the godfather. of soul, , and like thinking about their music. There's, there's such emotion in their music, when they sang, but it's, but it's more than emotion, you know, there's emotion and every you know, And hard rock and heavy metal and but there's a certain kind of emotion,
in those two in particular. That's. something like,
Spirit infused with emotion. , Or , it's like a religious experience, you know, like there's this gospel sort
of
aspect.
to their, to their singing.
And I, thought that's, that's why that's so all it's like, you know, deeper than, emotion even, . And so just to sort of come back. , we're sort of. outlining To ways that fathers can model this work one you're describing as , these practices to set the stage. for the authentic self to emerge And the other, we mentioned was therapy,
which is really working with the defenses that we have in place.
and The secondary emotions like anxiety and guilt and shame that are in place that keep us from feeling those deeper emotions, the raw core emotions of anger and sadness and disgust and feeling. like. we, We can go through the day avoiding feelings that are unseen, unknown, but are very, much there. and in therapy we can start to experience those in a way that that's tolerable and, and therefore not need anxiety guilt, shame, defenses as much. And then. What's underneath. That is something like those James Brown screams and the Aretha Franklin.
Like, I don't know what it is she's doing
but it's hallowing.
Yeah, it's
[00:29:34] Noah: this? I mean, I just, I it's funny. Cause I I'm realizing I left out what has been for me. Maybe one of the most profound. Soulcraft tools, . , which is acupuncture, like psychotherapy it, um, the, the acupuncture points invite one, , into an altered state of consciousness, often with the ability to evoke certain threads of that consciousness.
Right. There's. Five elements that are all related to different emotional states and ,
and then within that field, there is a space to, to touch into and process and experience things that maybe we can't as easily do in a typical, set or a setting. And, Much in the way that that psychotherapy, has that power, , with the proper consciousness and awareness and attention of a psychotherapist who is, doing that kind of work. I, I feel like the field that gets created, with acupuncture, with the right practitioner, really supports that process. And, um, I've had
[00:30:52] Dave: So
[00:30:53] Noah: my most profound insights or contact with this quality on the table and I've facilitated that for a lot of people and it's beautiful.
Um,
[00:31:08] Dave: so.
yeah. so.
In all of these examples.
there is a way in which. we as adults have learned to where we've built something over on top of sometimes blocking a depth in us that is rich and, and, and maybe sometimes uncomfortable. to reach. And So these practices that we've discussed, sort of help us peel back the layers
Until we can rest let go, surrender to be who we are underneath, all of that.
[00:32:00] Noah: Yeah. And what you're saying just has. back to and touch on something. We talked about last time, coming back to the kids and coming back to what they need, what we can do for them.. And I, just think the obvious thing that shows up or initiations are rituals or ceremonies that honor.
The transitions that they go through throughout their childhood and do adulthood that, uh, invite them to, to come into contact with some quality within them, that is more than the physical material existence that they live. And that witnesses that within them. Right. If you have a
[00:32:53] Dave: group of.
[00:32:55] Noah: Adults who are in contact with soil and can see that within them. Then, then that also helps that come out, , the first thought I was like, ., when they're 18, you know, you do a sort of like coming into adulthood ritual or, you know, oh, no, no.
When they hit puberty, when they're 12, , oh, then you get to do this big transition ritual. but actually when, uh, when he's, yeah. I don't remember where she was three or four. She, she went through this transition from having a nanny, in addition to being with us a lot and going to school, going to her look pre-K class.
And we did this. And we made this little, like rainbow that she walked under and her nanny was there and they, you know, there was sort of like a acknowledgement that she's growing up, that she's letting something letting go of something that was tender and precious and so, so special. And she's also stepping into something else that's tender and precious and also so special.
, , Zephyr too, he, he, um, went through a similar, had a similar ceremony and you know, is, is, and part of it's also, what are we holding as a family system for them? I mean, even when Netta had her first food and she's now nine months, so that was three months ago.
And it's like, do you just like, okay, here's your first food? Or , you know, maybe we're lighting a candle. Maybe we're all , just holding the sense of, wonder of , you're now joining the, this rest of this next, the rest of humanity that is eating food right in this way. And what does that mean?
And, um, even the tooth fairy, I think the tooth fairy is a wonderful, wonderful, Part of our culture. And when Hazel lost her first tooth,
more important than what she was going to get under her pillow, whether it was a quarter or a dollar or $5, or was the note that I wrote actually the first tooth, her S her auntie, uh, my sister-in-law wrote, but every single one. And, and I've been trying to. Okay. I hope she can't listen
[00:35:09] Dave: I was just going to say, man,
[00:35:11] Noah: doesn't listen to these
[00:35:12] Dave: well, no child under.
a certain age can listen to it now.
[00:35:17] Noah: Okay, well, that's true. Um,
[00:35:22] Dave: sorry, parents.
You can contact Noah and, and he can talk your child through this one.
[00:35:30] Noah: um, well, no, I think, you know, the.
I honestly don't believe that I was writing those notes. I honestly believe I was channeling the tooth fairy. Um, and that, you know, the tooth fairy doesn't have a physical body in this world. They only have the impacts of their, their essence. Right. And so I was writing these notes, teaching her the magic of the world.
And, and what, what secret of, of the, the essence of life does each tooth that she loses and then brings in from her own being like, what is it trying to teach and share?
[00:36:17] Dave: Yeah.
There's something that you're Witnessing in her.
Is emerging, as, uh, as we're saying, and and there's something about these rites of passage that,
are like snapshots of the soul in time, right. Like sort of like getting an astrology reading at certain times It's like, where are the planets aligned today.
And,. There's some thresholds that are
more coalesced
than, than everyday life.
[00:36:52] Noah: and the threshold of stepping into parenthood is definitely one of those. And, we have the guide for how to, how to conduct a. Uh, ceremony for initiation and the father heard on the website, and that's a rubric for any ceremony, but, ceremony and ritual are another sort of form of Soulcraft, a way that we can weave contact with this quality that we're calling soul or soulfulness into day to day life.
[00:37:23] Dave: Yeah.
[00:37:23] Noah: In addition, I mean, we do a little blessing before, before meals and we sing some songs, not every morning, cause we're not that disciplined, but as many mornings as we can muster up the timeline to work out well, um, we, we do these morning songs.
To like, sort of welcome in the day and bring in your spiritual essence to our day. So I'm wondering, Dave, what, what are some of the ways that like you think about, or, or actively try to, , evoke or honor, or , engage this, this soul quality in your kids?
[00:38:01] Dave: Yeah. Well first, just to say , It's almost like the language,
of my kids souls is play, know, or maybe kids in general, , that's their biggest expression,? So um, a lot of it they're doing on their own. And then I love to play with them. I also, when I think I'm being uniquely Myself. And then being uniquely themselves, there's a quality of weird, That emerges, it's almost, like w, our uniqueness is a synonym for our weirdness.
you know, w What makes us different from folks? So I'm just really like my kids think I'm weird. and that's a strange.
way to, uh, cultivate, you know, soul. But, but, it's not non-conformity. It's, who am I when we're just the four of us in my house. I'm making jokes, fart jokes are very soulful. For example, dad jokes, no such thing, by the way,
[00:39:12] Noah: as
[00:39:12] Dave: a bad dad
a bad dad joke. Um, And just being playful, listening to music, dancing together, like dance parties, I just want to nod by the way, to your son's effer. I saw a video of him dancing to a surface pressure
from the Encanto soundtrack, very soulful soundtrack by the way. . , that is soul in action. watching that kid dance. It's amazing.
[00:39:43] Noah: amazing
[00:39:44] Dave: So, yeah, just being expressive in the house together,
but then like sweet moments, together too, you know?
where we're just being. Not trying to accomplish anything, I feel like reading together sometimes, you know, and reading a book that, that elicits that something in them that's unique and authentic.
[00:40:17] Noah: I know you guys like to go camping. And spend time out in nature. And I feel like that's one of the places in ways, that like not trying to do anything and just kind of going with the flow and being tends to be
[00:40:30] Dave: evoked.
totally. Yeah. I love that too.
You're you were talking about wandering in the woods. I love having days like that, where we don't have to go anywhere or do anything, we just, Someone has an idea. We go do it. Someone else, has an idea. We go do it. You know, Let's get in the car. Let's go somewhere.
new. You know, that's lights them up. Yeah.
[00:40:59] Noah: Well, I think we've, we've talked our listener's ear off now. And, um,
[00:41:08] Dave: can I end with a, with a poem?
[00:41:10] Noah: would love for you to end with a poem. I think that would be because poetry is another gateway to.
[00:41:16] Dave: total. Yeah. So this is um, from Kahlil Gibran. and It's from the prophet
, the poem called on children. Your children are not, your children. they are the sons.
and daughters of life's longing for itself. They come through, you. but not from. And though they are with you,
yet, they belong not to you. You may give them your love, but not your thoughts for they have their own, thoughts. you may house their bodies but not their souls for their souls dwell in the house.
of tomorrow, which you cannot visit. Not even in your dreams. You may strive to be like them.
But seek not to make them like. For life goes not backward.
nor Terry's with yesterday. You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth. the Archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite and he bends you with his might, that his arrows may go swift and far Let your bending in the Archer's hand before gladness.
For, Even as he loves the arrow, that flies. So he loves also the bow. That is stable.
Um, thanks.
Thank you.
[00:42:56] Noah: And thank you all who are out there in the world, listening, , and feeling and just being a part of. What we're trying to do here. And as always, if you have any questions, comments, ideas, reflections, please send them our way. connect@counciloffathers.com. Please feel free to spread the word about the podcast.
You know, let a buddy, a dad and uncle, cousin, or brother know about it. And, uh, if you want to rate it on iTunes or whatever your podcast app is that the. Um, I look forward to reconnecting next time.
[00:43:44] Dave: Thanks. Y'all be
[00:43:45] Noah: well be well.