A Cohort of Fathers

In this unique and exciting episode we interview 3 dads from the most recent Council of Fathers cohort. These dads share an insiders view of what happens when fathers gather together intentionally to connect and learn from each other in a men’s group. The discussion includes favorite aspects of being in community with other dads to the struggles and triumphs they experience as fathers. We end with some beautiful words of advice from the dads (it’s worth listening all the way to the end). We hope you walk away from listening to this episode more grounded and present and with a sense that you’re part of a community of dads doing their best to show up for their children and families.

Summary:

“We did some exercises and discussions and around the legacy of our, you know our fathers. There was this, I forget exactly how you got us into it, but what became abundantly clear is that every father in the group was committed to ending some toxic burden.

There was this clarity on wanting to heal something wanting to do better for our kids. And that was like, boom. I felt united with this group when we all were like on the same path with that specific thing. That was really powerful. ”

— -Mike T.

This conversation revolves around the various purposes and struggles that fathers experience in their parenting journey. They discuss the importance of finding balance in fulfilling different roles and the identity of being a father. The group also emphasizes the healing and personal growth that comes from being part of a supportive community of other fathers. They share their struggles as fathers, such as feeling overwhelmed, lacking presence and quality time, and not giving themselves enough space and self-care. They also highlight the joys and confidence that arise from being part of a supportive group. The conversation concludes with a message to fathers and mothers, encouraging them to seek support and connect with others who can provide guidance and understanding in their parenting journey.

Transcript (please note that the transcript is generated by AI and may contain errors):

Hi, and welcome to the Council of Father's Podcast. I'm Noah. I'm Dave, and we are here to talk about the wild journey we call fatherhood. Today we're doing an extra special episode. You may already notice from the sound that there's a little bit of a different thing we have. Three amazing dads here with us who are just part of our most recent cohort.

And, we're gonna be having a conversation with them and hearing about their experience and learning from them. So exciting, so, so exciting to have these guys here, especially after we just finished our council, um, a month ago. So kind of miss you guys. So it's nice to see you and just really cool to have y'all on the, on the podcast.

Thanks for coming. Cool. So we're gonna start out and just have these guys introduce themselves and we'll go from there. So my name's Kevin. I'm father of an eight year old. My name's Stefan. I'm a father of. A two and a half year old and a one and a half year old. I'm Mike. I've got three kids.

Uh, eldest is nine, seven and four. Hmm. It's a lot of kids. It's a lot of kids. We've got like a whole, a whole clan amongst us. I just, as a reminder, I've got also three kids, nine, five, and almost two, and I've got a. 10 year old son and an eight year old daughter. Wow. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. So I thought we would start with having you guys share a little bit about, why you decided to come and join Council of Fathers.

I signed up because I liked the commitment of a six month cohort and the regularity. Of every couple of weeks. I also liked that it wasn't a commitment forever, and it wasn't every single week or every other day, but I knew we could connect well over a longer period of time.

Will you say more about the commitment part?

Like you, you were looking, you wanted to make a commitment that was a, that was a better,

it was appealing. It was appealing for me to make a commitment and then follow through on it, but appealing too, that I knew I would get closer to other men. Because we all committed to something. Yeah. Um, and there was an accountability piece to it that was appealing to me.

Yeah. That's a big, a big part I think we talked about in our last night together in this room, talking about how committed everyone was and how e every dad showed up even when we were tired and uh mm-hmm. Um, yeah. It was something like the commitment to ourselves, but also to each other. Yeah.

Well, it's cool to hear you say that as like something that drew you in. Cuz I usually think of that commitment piece as something that kind of stops people of like, ooh, six months. Like, that's a long time or like every other week. You know, and so just hearing that that's something that was actually attractive to you because it, it, it showed a level of, of depth that would be involved is pretty cool.

Yeah, that was definitely appealing.

How about you, Stephan? Similar to Kevin in the way that when I commit to something, I go all in. Mm-hmm. And thinking about six months with, at first, you all who I had no idea really, other than, no, I had, I didn't really know. I didn't know anyone else, but I was excited to know.

Immediately and be welcomed into a group of fathers who I, previously, I had no such type of group or network supporting me since I became a father. So I felt like having, committing to six months with like-minded men who could be there for you, you could be there for them. Just diving headfirst into the deep end to me was, why wanting to join. That deep commitment. I knew I was gonna be able to show up week in, week out and be my, my true self. And that's why. Yeah. Nice. And you, you've got two little kids, so this was like, um, You knew you needed support. Yeah. And like, yeah. Especially with your second kiddo, it was time to bring in the reinforcement.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Charge up . Fill my cup with all the, all the nutrients. Yeah. Um, to be able to show up,, better at home. Nice. Mike. Um, I had done men's work before. I think it, I think it had been a 10, a 10 week weekly thing. And, I did that at a time when I was, um, struggling, needed support and found it, supportive, found it helpful,, and had gotten away.

I mean, it'd been a long time. And yeah, just recognizing, the absence of male friendships. Really identifying as a father, I think what was most attractive to me, that it wasn't just a men's group, but it was, centered around this identity as a father. Mm-hmm. Which is, uh, really important to me.

And also really, you know, an edge. So, I knew it would be good for me and it was, attractive being focused on, on fathers. And yeah, recognizing I really needed that, that support, of men that, that I wasn't really getting, that I kind of forgot. I needed. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. , I like that sort of, you know, I think we sort of mentioned either on the website or in general that we're, we're a men's group for fathers, right?

Mm-hmm. I mean, the goal is to achieve that level of support for men in the modern world, to connect with self and connect with others and have value outside just, , Producing or,, working, , but value as a, as a father too. . Thanks for that.

Yeah, great. I'm curious if, if one of you guys can sort of share, you know, what a, a typical evening looked and felt like for you guys. We've. Described it in various different ways, but I, yeah, it'd be interesting to hear your version of that. I'll share because I think that the beginning of it was really, , an important piece which is coming together, the space is amazing.

Um, even like traveling a little bit at distance to get here and being able to transition from work or family. Coming in, greeting each other, and then the opening with some ritual and, recognition of, how we're supported to be here. Acknowledgement around the, courage and showing up, and, and intention setting and, and transitioning.

That was always, um, Important to me. And, yeah, I'll, I'll pass it from here. But the way we started, really set the tone.

I really appreciate it at the beginning of most circles, how we would come in from the various places we were for the day and connect. Um, You know, embrace, greet each other and then sit in circle. And often I watched the tone go from more jovial or lighthearted mm-hmm. To a short meditation that helped me to connect with how I was really feeling inside and what I, what my intention was for coming to that group and, and working on that night.

And I experienced a lot of power out of feeling from the other people in the room at the same time that we all. Are taking this time out of our day, and as we talked about before, the commitment of coming to the group. And that, for me each week would really deepen that coming out of the meditation, it really felt like we were all in the same space.

Mm-hmm. I hear you speaking to this quality that most of the time when we interact with other people, and especially I think as men, , there's sort of this surfacey kind of lighthearted light connection. Like, oh, how, you know, what, what was, what was your day like? Or just catching up and, and, and that there's something in, in that ritual and in that process of dropping deeper, of making a choice.

You know, there's nothing wrong with like, Catching up and talking about, the game or whatever it is, you know, work. And, but like we're saying, this space is, is special in a certain way. It's sacred in a certain way and we're gonna take a moment to go a little bit deeper and, then even deeper still to actually connect in a way that's more meaningful and maybe creates a different type of experience.

Yes, absolutely. I'm accustomed to having conversations that are about things that have happened, telling stories about things that have happened, reviewing the facts of the day. But I really looked forward to the group as a time to come together, and even more so than celebrating Joys. Um, it being an accepting and really welcoming space for processing and gaining support through, through struggle and challenges.

Hmm.

I mean, to piggyback on that, I mean I imagine for most people you're gonna, for most fathers, unless you are deliberately carving out time to create space away from your life, you, you're not getting that. And uh, just recognizing how important that is, even if you're not. Doing anything else.

Mm-hmm. Really creating, , a place to turn that off, connect with, with what's alive. And to do that , in the council, in the circle with other men, fathers who are, who are, you know, it just, it, um, that alone had, was invaluable because,, I have self-care time. I'll go run. You know, it's like, it's uh, it's different.

It's different. Yeah. It felt sacred to me and, and I didn't really know how to do that. I didn't really know that that was a thing to do. Um, so, yeah. Yeah.

So now seems like a good time to mention that Noah, you and I are also part of the group, right? We're not, we're not just. You know, organizing it and, facilitating.

But we're also, dropping in too and sharing. And so for me as well to, yeah, to to drive here. Like you said, Mike, even the entering and the drive, drive-in is like, okay, I'm doing something different than I did the rest of the day. And to what, what I heard you saying, it's almost like a mini retreat, you know, like retreating from all the constant stimuli that I'm a, like trained to, a trained, attuned in, trained, something like that.

A train, you know? Hmm. Uh, that I'm used to and just like habitually going through. And then the other thing you're saying is like it's, I'm not just doing it on my own, I'm doing it. With others, and we're all, we all have the same intention. So, yeah. I'm, I'm feeling that too. Just like, and, and I'm also thinking about the difference between sort of deep or meaningful and serious.

Like, I, mm. It didn't feel like, uh, like a, yeah, I don't wanna give the impression that it's hyper serious. Like we, we also laugh and, and have fun. Um, but. Yeah. There is a sense of like, okay, we're here to accomplish something, or we're here to do something.

Yeah. I think there's a lot to say about in this theme of intention, the value that this council provides to each and every one of us is in between the intentional opening and the intentional closing of our time together.

Mm-hmm. It's awesome. I. Live for getting hugs and hugging back all of you when we, when we arrive and when we say goodbye for the evening. But the, the value of us having this deep, meaningful connection happens in between the intentional opening and the intentional closing as you, as you both Noah, and Dave do so well.

Hmm. How does that ripple into the week? You right, like we have this special. Sacred, meaningful connective time together. It's like, you know, two hours every other week on like a random Wednesday night. But does it actually, does it feel like, oh, I've, we are thirsting for that again and I have to wait two weeks?

Or does it feel like, oh, that is fueling me through these, these few weeks or Yeah. Like what, how does that, you're leading the witness. Am I, I mean, I mean, I can actually speak going back to the fact that we are, you know, what I call like facilitator, participants, you know, not trying to, trying to, you know, we participate in the groups that I, I always leave feeling filled up in a way.

And, um, and Dave and I, we've joked about like, the secondary gains of like, I feel like I father better and parent better and, you know, partner better. Certainly in those few days, after a session and sometimes in the few days leading up to the session, cuz it's sort of like somehow is in my system.

Yeah. So it helped me because sometimes I would leave group with a father's specific words in my mind. Either their testimony about how they had gotten through something or if it was a time that we had asked for and received any advice or actual counsel on. So there were times that the specific wisdom brought here by other men in the group,, supported me throughout the week, but then also I felt supported by just the general sense of knowing that I wasn't the only father going through what I'm going through.

So that even if I was struggling in a moment of parenting and didn't, Have anything to look back on where I remembered someone here giving me some amazing advice. It was mostly that I felt a solidarity and a comfort in knowing that I, I'm not the only father who doesn't have answers all the time. And also I'm part of a group with other fathers who are doing our best.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I love that. Making mistakes and doing our best. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Beautiful.

Yeah. So what, I mean, we sort of started to kind of like discuss this a little bit. What, what would you guys say you got out of the experience? Well, I got out of the Council of Fathers and um, maybe like how did you feel at the beginning of that six month period versus at the end of the six month period.

I think I gained a, a tool set of mental models to process yeah, I would say tools in the form of mental models that would help me work through the challenges that. Entangled my mind, uh, and my heart.

That's the first thing that comes to mind as the most present thing is like a takeaway from our time together. When I arrived in the council, I felt so unsure of who I would become at the other end, I was looking to become a, a more confident father. And parent and co-parent and I, I ultimately achieve that feeling that way, a lot more confident now that I can use these new tools that I picked up that are in my mental toolbox that I can pull out for the specific challenge job to be done in my head.

And that for how, maybe that might sound insignificant to some, but just the sense of confidence. The feeling of confidence and having that as a primary take take away is can't put a value to that and that his immense to who I am. And I think who I've become over the, since six months ago. Mm-hmm.

Now seven, almost seven months ago. I really appreciate hearing you described. You had a goal that you were going for coming into group, and also a destination that you feel like you reached. I experienced group often as coming back to the same river. Every other week and jumping in the river, being something, it's fatherhood.

It was flowing before any of us came to group. It'll keep flowing long after we're done parenting, long after we're done being here, but that we all came back to the same, same river. And so I think I took from it a real sense of connection with a shared journey. And my experience of fatherhood isn't identical to anyone else's experience of fatherhood.

But, the fact that I identify strongly as a father and came to this group with the intention of becoming a better father through soliciting the wisdom and support of other fathers, that also feels like a, I guess, goal that I reached. But just along the journey, the journey is what brought me there.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I want to, I want to amplify that because,, Again, it was completely unexpected to feel a profound connection to the sacred task of, of fathering, and to be connected with y'all, but also to recognize and view myself as part of, um, Something way bigger. And, I don't know what the words are, but, you know, ancestral part of a larger movement or turning, it bolstered my pride as a father. Hmm. And identity as a father, I would say.

Yeah, the bigger frame, the bigger picture, the broader view, um, and feeling connected to all fathers that way, the challenges and, and through, through the different, you know, through history, reflecting on that. There's this other piece too, which is I think just being, able to share,, be witnessed, be held, and, and reciprocate that.

But I don't know what you guys call it, dad. Shame is, is that what it is? You know, I think we all struggle with that. And the nutrient that was specifically available in this group of fathers is the compassion those challenges or those mess up or, those shameful moments.

That was really powerful. I don't think. You could receive the same compassionate witness from somebody who wasn't a father. Mm-hmm. And so, mm-hmm. That was huge.

I'll second that. It was really special to me in this group how it felt like a very welcoming space, and I did not experience any sense of judgment or shame being here in the group. Hmm.

We did some, you know, there were prompts and I mean, there were, there were times when we would, we would go around and we'd check in, and then there'd be some topics, some maybe you would discuss. Other times we'd start with the topic. I think at the beginning we started with some laying some foundational work.

We did some exercises and discussions and around the legacy of our, you know our fathers mm-hmm. Their fathers. There was this, I forget exactly how you got us into it, but what became abundantly clear is that every father in the group was committed to ending some toxic burden.

There was this clarity on wanting to heal something wanting to do better for our kids. And that was like, boom. I felt united with this group when we all were like on the same path with that specific thing. Mm-hmm. That was really powerful.

Yeah. That's funny. You talk about, the structure and, and the prompts.

And I think pretty much every group we, we had a plan and then, and then let it go because it has a, the group has, uh, a mind of its own. And, that was really cool to witness just this, this group sort of knowing what it needed and knowing I could kind of just trust that what needed to happen was gonna happen, but it was funny to plan for it, you know?

Yeah, yeah. The, less planning, more presence, from emergent strategy. Yeah, there was something really special and being able to trust. Everyone in the group and what they were bringing and, yeah, I know that we were bringing what needed to be brought also, but in a way that was, open to, to whatever was spontaneously arising at the same time. Yeah.

And I think that developed over time.

I think we had to feel, we had to kind of. Developed the chemistry. Yeah. Af o over the first few Yeah. Sessions. That feels true. Yeah, that feels true.

I want to add something to, not in opposition to what Steon said, but just to contrast, you know, we, we covered like mental models, we shared best practices.

And I think what I got most out of it was way less strategic and, and way more, I don't know, some kind of macro perspective on fatherhood and feeling supported. Mm-hmm. I didn't know how much support I needed. It was, and the amount I got from these fathers was unimaginable.

I really. Didn't really know what that felt like, which is what I imagine it should be. Like what what a healthy community feels like. Um, original bonds formed around the rite of passage of being men and being fathers. I think we were tapping into some stuff there. So we did, you know, we got strategic, we got specific, you know, how do, how do you handle bedtime? Um, you know, how do you handle power struggles? But we, but it was that bigger container that was holding, that we were holding each other, I felt held by this group, but this group was held by, uh, something way bigger. Yeah. Hmm.

I agree with that. Absolutely. I think I was speaking. A lot to how I approach change.

Mm-hmm. And, and bringing to the surface the confidence in me knowing that there is this way, this particular method that is effective, that I believe in that will help me get through this particular challenge that I'm facing. And that's just how I think. Yeah. Yeah, and that was super valuable for me personally.

Yeah. But like you were saying, going back to the taking some time to get to know each other when we had one-on-one breakout discussions, that first gathering in which we did that in that format really got to more of the roots of who we are as fathers and the discussion around fatherhood and. And that, I think was a pivotal milestone, at least in, from my perspective of this journey across this six months altogether. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And you guys, I don't know if everybody ended up connecting with everybody else, but there was an intention for in between groups like the dads to connect and.

Was that, is that something that was meaningful and supportive and or, yeah, that was helpful. Had some meaningful phone calls, some good walks, and felt like that was valuable time to know somebody else one-on-one, both because of taking the time to have a one-on-one conversation. Mm-hmm. But also those were snapshots where I was often coming at it from my. More the flow of ordinary life. Perhaps a phone call outside while is at work. Uh, seeing, seeing Dave on a weekday morning. So it was outside the context of the group, which just gave it a different flavor. And then knowing everybody that way, I suppose I brought that back into the group as well.

And that expectation was, You know, you're, again, making time that you might not otherwise make to connect with a, with a friend or a father would get to know somebody better. Um, and I, I'm not, I wouldn't have created that had that not been an expectation. Uh, and now, you know, it's baked into my week, so, If I can follow them, I like that it made us all accountable to each other at some point.

Mm-hmm. We were, we're not only coming to the group accountable to to Noah and Dave as the participant facilitators, but we then were accountable to each other to actually set that time up and then follow through on it and, and be present and reveal ourselves during those conversations. And doing so extended the experience that we all had altogether and dave or Noah, what you were talking about with do you become more present or do you, do you feel more full bef like leading up to our time together and the days that follow having time with your. Partner for the, you know, your, your buddy for the month was created that momentum that I didn't know I needed until I had my first conversation or meetup.

And that was really, I think, pivotal for extending the time in between. Yeah. Cool.

I feel this tension that, that we've felt in several sort of purposes that are, you know, we're trying to serve at the same time. You know, you guys are naming them, there's sort of the parenting skills.

That we've, really focused on in the past. There's identity as a father. What does it mean to be a father? There's like this, you know, you use the word healing, I guess growth or development as a person. There's connection with other men, these are all sort of.

What seemed sometimes like competing, purposes that we're trying to achieve with the group. I don't know if you guys have anything to say about that or, or suggest or offer, or maybe it's not a problem. But I felt that in the past, like how do we find the balance? Yeah. There's like several needs Yeah.

That. Dads seem to have. And they seemingly are sometimes competing, came to group. I came to group and felt very seen as a father and supported as a person. Mm-hmm. So, being a father was something of the, the banner under which I walked coming into the group, you know, as an identity. I, Carrie, I not only felt supported in fatherhood, but just generally as a person.

Because one of the ways I walk in the world is as a father, but I felt very seen as a whole human and supported in the group. Mm-hmm.

I mean, I know you're asking them for responses, but I sense that,

I'm experiencing and we are experiencing, watching and seeing and contributing to the, growth, the changing, the maturation of Council of Fathers as its own thing, as a process. And so, I would say that, there was something actually pivotal about the, this cohort in particular.

Um, and, and the way we were able to find some sort of balance that, that landed really well between those different, um, I don't know if you wanna call 'em goals or needs and which is something I'm really grateful for it and kind of humbled by, you know, we just keep showing up and, and offering ourselves and to be sort of received by this group of, dads and then also received from them.

And the way that we did as participants was pretty, pretty special. So,

yeah, I agree. It's a good tension, right? And it's maybe leading to something more, what did you say? Compressed? That was the word. It's a compression, that's what's happening. Mm. Yeah. I think there's also attunement, like, you know, we would. Something would, would come up for one of us, or, you know, or there'd be a shared theme.

Um, and I think it speaks to the strength of the, the container and the bond that, as a group we'd attune to what was up. You know, none of us showed up with an, I mean, I, I didn't get the sense anyone of us showed up with an agenda like, I need my stuff worked on today. And maybe we did actually.

There were times we'd be like, yeah, I actually need to share now. So I take that back. There was the freedom to do that and we had permission to let the emergent come forward. And the best word is, is attunement. Mm-hmm. Yeah. When that wasn't. It wasn't like it was conscious until the moment of being here where, where like that would rise up for somebody of like, oh yeah, I actually kind of do need a little extra.

Yeah. Yeah. In that this was someone had a particularly charged Yeah. Share or was struggling with something and I felt, to me, obvious when we needed to, you know, circle up around either. One father or around a topic. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I would agree. And I really appreciate that word attunement because, I mean, in a way that's just this like huge piece of parenting, right?

Is being able to attune to our children and being able to even attune to ourselves, cuz sometimes we're so caught up in the stuff of life that like we're not actually in attunement with our own selves. And Yeah. And being in a space where we each as individuals, were being attuned to, and then we were practicing that Process of, of attuning to others and the sort of like the amplification then that happens when you have, you know, five or six or seven other men attuning to you.

Then it's like, whoa, and when you're attuning to somebody else with, you know, however many other men at the same time, it like kind of, , in trains but in a positive way. Um, what it feels like to be attuned to and to attuned to somebody else in a way that like,, I think does seep into, into the home life and into the family life and into the, the, and potentially even just like life, life in general.

So, yeah. I love that word. Appreciate that you, that you use that one. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What that looks like is often just like nodding, right? Like someone says something and all the other dads in the room nod and it's like, oh. Yeah, you get me like, I'm not the only one who, who does that or who experiences that or yells, you know, or, um, struggles.

Yeah. Yeah. So speaking of struggles. Yeah. What, what are some struggles that y'all have as fathers and what are, what are some joys. Both.

I struggle with giving myself the space I need to show up as my authentic self to my children, and to my wife. I stretch myself far too thin. Over committing myself to things that relate to my kids or things that need to be done around the house that until recently I didn't intentionally set time aside from myself so that I could recharge and come back

and reenter my house. The role of that I play as a father, uh, with more energy and more of who I want to be. That's what I struggle. That's, that's what I have struggled with and I still do struggle with it. And this confidence that I receive, that I now feel more frequently as a result of spending time. And being a part of this recent cohort has given me that confidence just to like work through this struggle that I've had for so long. So it still is a struggle, but something that is more manageable at this point. Nice.

I struggle sometimes with. Deciding when to challenge my son to try a new way to try a new activity and when to support him in doing exactly what he is already enjoying doing. And I think that one benefit of many a deriv from participating in this group is putting a mirror in front of myself as often as possible and trying to take responsibility for where.

The struggle I just described is not, it's not my son's struggle at all. It's not what he's doing. It's a struggle that's going on inside of me as I'm considering my own childhood and how I am as a person. And Stephan, as you said, the space I need to take for myself to then be resourced to parent. I find that that struggle I just described at the beginning, Is a lot less frequent and it seems much less severe or important.

When I've had time to connect with myself and recharge, I'm more effortlessly than walk through the times where I'm wondering what the right direction is to take and there's no one right direction. And I go ahead and pick one and, and go with it.

I think I, in general, I struggle with, um, overwhelm and there's a whole sort of circular cycle around that. Um, but I kind of hit , a threshold, you know, nine years of sleep deprivation, you know, Nervous system is completely jacked and, you know, waking up and instantly feeling anxiety cuz I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to not yell at my kids.

And just this impending doom of sort of dissociative reactive and then, then the shame behind that. And then, you know, the circular, the circular pattern. So, um, That was a struggle before this experience, and it still is a struggle, but, I definitely have more capacity and there's, there's, there's meaning, there's more meaning to it.

Mm-hmm. So it makes it,, a fight worth, worth fighting. One before it was it was getting pretty dark. I really. I, I feared my family and I think I did a decent job. I've been told that I cover it up pretty well, but it was unsustainable, so, yeah, it's better now.

Thanks for sharing that. , I'll just. Jump in because go step into that participant rover. Just lately a struggle that I've been having has been around like, some mixture between presence and quality time. I feel like I'm with my kids quite a bit, which I feel grateful for cuz I know that's not an option for, for everybody.

But a lot of that time it feels like isn't super meaningful, super connective. And if it's me like telling the kids to pick up after themselves or I'm cooking dinner while they're, like doing whatever they're doing and it's like we're around each other but not actually connecting or so,

and I feel like the fact that I'm like aware that I, I'd like to be putting in more kind of intention to more quality time is, is says a lot. And I, and I feel like that that's coming down the pipeline as we move into the summer.

So as we wrap up here, I'm curious, you know, we're putting this out into the world and sharing it. If you know, there's no, if nothing comes, nothing comes. But like, what, is there anything any of you guys want to, to share with the dads or the moms out there that are listening? Like a message or a thought or whatever.

When this ended my, I mean, I kind of came to you guys like, um, ready to preach the gospel. Like we need to go into the hospital and find. The dads that don't know that they're gonna need this and like, get 'em to come. Mm-hmm. Um, and now kind of have respect and reverence for each of our own processes, uh, in how we come to getting these fundamental needs met.

But, If you suspect that you're missing something, you know this could be it. It probably is if you don't have it. Uh, so however that looks. Um, I remember reading Arthur Brook's Strength to Strength and one of his prescriptions for second half of life and finding fulfillment is.

Relationships, and he talks about men just getting together to build bird houses in the same space. They don't even really talk or share much, but that there's just an intrinsic value in showing up to be with other men at a given time every week or whatever. Hmm. Uh, it could be a lot more than that, if you don't have it, I guess I'll speak to my, my past self and say, um, You know, you're missing something and there's a level of support that you know you need, but you don't know how to get it.

And, this is it. This is a big part of it. Mm-hmm. So commit. Yeah. Find, find a group and, and commit. There's some weird inertia you gotta get over to make that happen. But yeah. I wish I had heard you say that when Rafi was born, I wish I had heard that. Yeah, that inertia, like for me, the inertia was like, go at it alone.

Like that was all I knew. Hunker down and figure this thing out by myself.

The thought of like, reaching out or like connecting. Would've had to come with some sort of like, if you're feeling this way, reach out. Yeah. I mean, hearing you say that makes me sad is tragic. Yeah, it's tragic that, that, that's what we, for whatever reason, think,

I don't know if I'm supposed to say this, um, on the air, but that was my experience of you when I first met you. Hmm. I was like, because, because we were, we were in community and I was like, Dave seems, I don't know, I can't, I can't get through, I can't connect, I can't, like, I spend time around him, but I, there's no, there's no dropping in.

I, I don't know, you know? Um, and I don't, I can't like, say what the specific pivotal point was and when or how it happened. But, um, yeah, I think it's, I'm really grateful that , you shifted, you opened up in whatever ways you did, and I'm, I'm grateful that I get to be one of the people that are in that, in that circle of, of openness and connection.

Um, and, and maybe I'm saying this like. As a testimony, like for people out there that are listening, like if you have a friend who seems walled off and you know, don't give up, uh, there's, there's hope for people like me. And if you yourself are someone who tends to isolate or yeah, go at it alone, like it doesn't have to be that way forever.

So I dunno. Yeah. I'll add to what Mike said Mike. You said that you, you knew you needed something and this was it. My experience of this group, but also men's groups in which I participated, is that I didn't know how much support was available right. Until I overcame the inertia and tried it and continued to be amazed and

impressed and grateful by how much long time and widespread wisdom and knowledge and support there is that I seldom feel like I'm the only person going through something anymore. I instantly shift now into that many people, many fathers have gone through this before and there's many ways of approaching whatever the issue is.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. If you feel like. You trust your inner voice to figure it out. Just the two of you, whatever the challenge may be think about seven other eight other voices that you would have with you to help you through what you're going through. One isn't enough. Your inner, your inner voice is not enough.

Yeah. Cool. Thank you guys. Um, anyone out there who's listening? Thanks for taking the time to listen and listen all the way to the end. If you've gotten this far, um, if this was meaningful, please share it, you know, with somebody who might also be meaningful for. And, um, if you want to connect with us, feel free to reach out email any other way, the website council of fathers.com.

And, uh, we hope that, um, we hope you feel a part of this just through the listening that you recognize that, um, Yeah, we are all in this together. And that the illusion of separation is exactly that. It's an illusion. And, uh, yeah, we're on a journey into a new story, one of connectivity and connection.

Kevin, Stephan, Mike, thank you so much for hanging out with us and, and. Dropping in wisdom. Appreciate it. Thank you guys. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you. Cool. Let's see you next time.