Fathering from the Shadows

In this Podcast for Fathers,

Dave and Noah explore our psychological shadows as dads and unpack how our unconscious minds drive our feelings and behaviors in ways that can impede connection.

They share personal examples of how the shadow impacts them as dads. They also discuss possible interventions to uncover the shadows in order to become better partners and parents.

Noah and Dave also offer insights into how we can limit how much repression happens for our children so they can express as there true and authentic selves from an earlier age.

Transcript (please note transcript was generated by AI and inevitably contains errors):

Fathering in the Shadows...

Hi, and welcome to the Council of Father's Podcast. where we explore the Wild Journey we call fatherhood. I'm Noah. 

This is Dave 

and welcome. 

How's it going, Noah? 

It's going pretty good. It's going pretty good. How are you? 

I'm pretty good. I had a good long. Sort of intensive weekend

All

right. You were, you were on a men's group retreat.

Tweet. 

It was, it was wonderful. And deep and connecting and expansive, and part of it was where we, where we were, we were on some land. , Buna Vista, as the locals call it. Mm-hmm. , and it was beautiful, beautiful, right on the river. and the company was spectacular. And yeah, it was just really nice.

Played a lot of music, talked about important and undervalued and concepts, ideas, thoughts, feelings that, you know, don't get talked about enough. 

Hmm. 

So I'm still, I'm noticing as we're talking that I'm still sort of like coming back from it. Mm-hmm. , it was a big journey. Big trip. A lot of. Driving to like a lot of hours on the road and then transitioning back to my family, you know, is wonderful and challenging.

Both.

I was standing in the, in the kitchen last night, you know, everyone was so excited to be reunited and there's a moment where everyone was talking at the same 

up 

and I was just so overstimulated and overwhelmed.

and it was just like a little bit of a, uh, reintegration shock, you know? 

Yeah. 

And then today it was sort of back to back to business as usual, and I'm noticing I'm a little tired from all that. 

you, Hmm. I like the, I.

mean it

that word reintegration and integration and just the idea that we have sometimes big experiences that you know, are kind of outside of the norm of our life and then we come back into the norm of our life and there's this sort of question and process of like, how.

do we, How do we connect those two things? How do we make it so that that experience, that event, that journey isn't just a blip in the past, but that we get to carry the meaningful and and beneficial threads from it into, into like the rest of life. 

Yeah. 

And I feel like that actually dovetails quite nicely with our, our theme for.

today. 

What's our theme for today? 

So what we were gonna, I've been I've been really thinking about this, that quote you sent, me that it's a Carl Young quote. 

Mm. 

Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will rule your life. and You will call it fate. 

Whoa.

Whoa,

you sent it to me. So, wow. Yeah, 

I know. 

And and it, you know, I think it, it flows thematically from our last episode and

ties into

a bunch of other things.

But yeah, just making the unconscious conscious and, and recognizing that the unconscious is, Pulling all sorts of strings. It's like, you know, almost like the horse rider like you know, pulling on the reins, Um, in ways that, you know, we don't realize. And so that journey of seeing those things and then getting to use the energy that's pulling us in every which way consciously, like

it's a kind of a powerful process and it's, a and is in different type of integration. 

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's, I don't know why we don't learn about this in kindergarten, you know, this idea of the conscious mind and, and the unconscious, or just like unseen forces in our, in our mind, you know, that. Impact us.

There's this way in which, you know, by the time dads get to us in Council of Fathers, there's this heroic effort to will oneself into being a better person. It's like, why do I keep snapping? , I don't wanna snap. It makes no sense. What, why do I do that? You know, this sort of like interpreting and analyzing and judging ourselves for not acting rationally.

When the truth is , you know, very small percentage of our minds operate rationally. You know, there's such a large, vast. Ocean of unconscious meaning, uh, processes, functions goings on in the mind that we are not aware of, right? The unconscious means that which we are not aware of. 

Mm Hmm. 

and Jung's quote, I think was an invitation to.

Rather than, you know, I, I shared this metaphor with you, that metaphor imagery with you, that I, I love the, the iceberg visual, you know, it's on my website that, you know, the little tip of the iceberg is above the ocean, but the vast majority of what's happening is underneath the surface. , and I love that.

But I started thinking about it in my own life as more like a volcano, 

thinking, you 

than a iceberg. Because there are these bubbles that bubble up to the surface without my conscious participation. They just surface, you know, it could be a, a, a deep fear, you know, anger, sometimes bumble bubbles up. , you know, and the, and the thought of trying to control that, controlling the lava and gases and a volcanoes is sort of absurd, 

ob Mm-hmm. , 

and you know, why would we think that all of this activity in the mind is under our conscious control? You know, I'm, I'm seemingly, everything's going swimmingly in the kitchen, and then all of the sudden, , I am possessed by something that wasn't there a moment ago. You know, could be fear, could be anger, could be, you know a fractured off part of me from the past that takes over.

And I'm like, what the heck was that? And the attitude of like, I need to not let that happen anymore. That's not acceptable. You know, is, I don't know, it's played out 

Well, and what you're actually, I mean, it's, it's so interesting because I think we get a little bit confused. wE tie the, the emotions with the actions. 

Yeah.

closely that.

like

We think that in order to control our actions, we have to control the emotions and, and I think there's the kind of f 

there's the rub 

the, and, it and it, and it's like if I can let myself feel angry,

I

maybe

it's easier to avoid yelling doing whatever other behavior that anger.

is gonna compel me to do. Or maybe even if, if the anger needs to come out in a yell, you know, can I bring that yell into a different room, you know, into the car, into what you know?

And so yeah. And so I think it can be helpful to Remi remember we're, the emotions are okay to feel the, the emotions. it's like, even though they're powerful and intense and you know, going back to the whole kindergarten thing, we're not taught how to let ourselves feel that way. And and it's only the actions that need to be channeled right in, in, in a way that is as harmless as given our capacities, And this is something I hear myself saying to my kids a lot lately.

is like, you

can feel angry or you can feel sad or you can feel upset, but you can't do x

Y, or Z. 

y, you know? Yeah. 

And

and 

you know, I get it, you know, you feel angry,

but you know you can't

hit so-and-so or Take the ball or whatever. 

whatever. It's, when I was little, I.

I want to try and put some sort of age to it, maybe maybe five or six.

I was, I was out on the front porch of my, my house and it was pouring rain and I was swinging a whiffle ball bat. I was like, you know, hitting the rain drops with whiffle ball bat. Noah, it was like the funnest, most magical, enjoyable thing ever. And there was a adult at the house, a parent of a friend who came flying out and yelled at me and I was like,

And so here's the thing. She was yelling at the behavior, which was getting soaked and cold. And, you know, she was, but what? But I paired it with the emotion, which was excitement and joy, right? And so those things got, were, were wire. were paired in my mind at that moment. Right. Don't, don't feel too much joy.

Don't feel too much excitement. That wasn't the intended message. Sure. The intended message was don't , don't swing a whiffle ball bat. And Lorraine. But my, 

away. even that message is arguably 

questionable. Yeah.

Questionable. 

But I think that's sort of, You know how it happens, we get, you know, or, or like, yeah, my kids get really angry and hit the other and I punish them, you know, or whatever, discipline or yell, or I somehow address the behavior and the messages.

Don't feel.

can't. Mm-hmm.

It's not the intended message, but it's the received message.

Yeah. I really appreciate

I really appreciate you

sharing that. And

I mean that's, that's really 

profound 

insight in terms of being able, like tracking back into that memory. and Seeing all of that, 

and, 

I'm noticing, I'm noticing that I feel a little like heady right now. 

Mm. 

And so before we continue diving into this, like, territory of the unconscious, which young used to call the shadow

if we

can take just one minute with, with our audience to Just like remember that we have bodies and kind of like wiggle our way into, into our bodies, and into

Our physical selves.

Noticing,

I feel 

Oh, I think I feel A little nervous. It's Actually, no, it's excitement and so there's a little bit of a buzz and yeah, I'm just feeling my weight on the couch and hopefully as

people

are listening to this, they're kind of like, oh yeah, whew. I had my air, my AirPods in my head or whatever. I was like listening up in my head and like, maybe,

maybe this

conversation can be a,

a more embodied, full, full.

bodied experience. Full. Yeah.

Thanks. Yeah, that's, I think that's sort of where we can find the discernment. we can locate that, the feeling and the behavior. Mm-hmm. are, are entangled. and we can start. Get familiar with the body sensations, the inner experience of emotions, as a way to start to detangle them a 

Mm. Yeah. I didn't even make that

connection, but I love it.

connection.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And you mentioned, you know, you mentioned Jung. Term shadow, which is about, you know, when, when we're kids and an adult disapproves of something, if it's the right adult or the wrong adult, depending on your view. But you know, as kids we can make an unconscious decision to tuck that. to repress it, 

know? Mm-hmm. 

to say, that's what I just did is, and by default, what I just felt is not okay, so I'm gonna not feel that anymore. unconscious decision, right? It's you were kids, we don't know we're making it. And then as adults,

We can start to become aware that there's something lurking in the basement. You know, there's something that's surfacing, um, coming sideways and, and often coming out as what we blame others for. Right,

exactly. . 

Yeah, 

because I mean, one of.

the like

Beautiful and challenging things about parenting is the thing that I was, was programmed to believe is wrong and not okay and unacceptable.

When I see my own child doing that same thing, unless I've worked through that I'm gonna immediately.

get

Angry or scared or worried that like, oh, they're doing this thing, it's not okay. Because it wasn't okay for me and, you know. Yeah. And that is right. Also part of Shadow

stuff that like it's essentially projecting this thing that I'm not allowed to e e exhibit or embody, or.

or, feel or, you know,

Onto our child and, and make the same judgment about them. And it, you know, of course doesn't just happen with kids

it happens with

other

humans as well.

But 

yeah, and it happens in, in relationship quite a, about, quite a bit in romantic partnerships that, you know, I always say like we, we hire our spouses. Help us discover our shadow. 

Like exactly what we talked about in the last episode.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's a beautiful, that was a beautiful telling articulation of you becoming aware of a projection, which was likely shadow material, something that you. not allowing yourself to be a part of your personality. At some level, it was like, this is unacceptable for Noah, right? And so the, the move that is protective is to say, is to project that same thing onto our partner.

As a adult who's dedicated to becoming aware of your own shadow, you said, oh, wait a minute, that's not about rage. That's about me. Right? And you followed it to, you know, maybe, maybe it's origin or, or somewhere in the 

yeah. 

but you, you got curious. What aspect of yourself had been cut off?

Yeah. Well, and

I think, you know, as we talk about this, it's

there's this question like, why, why bother? Right? Like, this stuff seems, this is uncomfortable 

and. 

Not easy, and assuming we're gonna need some support in this process. It could be expensive and

time consuming. Okay, so, so what? So I, you know, sometimes I yell at my kids. Sometimes I get in a fight with my partner.

Like, so what, like, this is like, why is it even worth it to go through all of.

that? Like,

What's the point, Dave? Why should I do this? homie, 

Because until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct or rule your life and you will call it fate . So at least according to cg, you are, we are when we, when we project the shadow onto others.

it's

incredibly misleading and disempowering because we're going around, you know, thinking that it's the external, the, the external world, our environment that is playing out at, we call it fate, but it's like, yeah, here I am in. Marriage and I'm being criticized and judged by my partner and well, I must have made the wrong decision.

Or, you know, I've got, I gotta, I gotta get her into therapy so that I, you know, or I gotta, you know, win the argument so that, so that I can change her, so that I can feel differently. Mm-hmm. , right? It's. until I become conscious of the fact that I'm projecting my shadow, I'm going to be looking in the wrong place.

You know, it's that. You know that story of Rasputin, who's not Rasputin, NAZA, Rudin, who's looking around on the side of the road. You know, some, some stranger stops and says, old man, can I, can I help you? He says, yeah, I'm looking for my keys. So the stranger gets down on the ground with him and they're looking in the dirt for the keys.

And finally, after a while, the stranger says, are you sure you've lost your keys out here? And Nez Rudin says, no, I lost him in the house. The stranger says, why are we looking out here? He says, cuz there's more light out here.

out,

Right. We're looking outside of ourselves. We're looking at the people in our lives and why?

Why look within instead? Because that's where it's located. Because if we want to feel better or fuller or more fulfilled, More empowered or more whole. The, the process of projecting the shadow is a process of disowning, part of ourself, splintering off part of ourself, and we are living we're wasting energy or we're diverting important energy.

Yeah, it takes a lot of energy to stay unconscious.

of something, you know, to keep protecting ourselves, to keep defending against it. And it's not until we can turn towards it and relate to it that A, it has less power over us. And B, it gives us tremendous energy. It frees up energy that we were using to keep it at bay.

yeah.

That was a beautiful articulation of, of yeah, why, why bother? I, I really appreciate that. I actually you know, it reminds me of

this

last week. I, I was in my men's group and I was sharing and I can't remember exactly when or why or how.

I

Came to this decision, but like, whenever something's not working in my marriage, I'm gonna see what I, what, what I can change. Doesn't mean I don't sometimes go down the thing of like complaining or, you know, even blaming or, you know, but like ultimately it's like, okay, what, what do I need to be doing?

differently

Here

and, and I've, I've found again and again, and again, and again, and again, and again. time again, there's, there's always something that I can do in me to change the dynamic between us and, and, and sometimes it's you. , know, the example I was sharing was like, I was feeling I wasn't feeling like I was getting as

much affection as I Right? And so it's like you could think, well, I can't, like what can I do to get more affection? Right? Because I'm ask, I'm wanting something more to come to me from my partner. And can you guess what I started to do?

me. I started to be more affectionate. I started offering more

like

expression of my affect. for Rachel.

And, and like over the course of a few days, like I, like there was just more warmth between 

us. Mm-hmm. 

and it was almost like the affection that I wasn't feeling was like, I wasn't, I wasn't giving the, you know, sort of like.

this whole, it's like a

Cycle, you know, like the water cycle or the carbon cycle

or it just,

yeah. And so so just always kind, of always looking for how can I take responsibility for whatever it is that is my part of this Situation. And, and it is empowering. and it, And it is, it, it does though require like a shift.

out of.

You know, we don't have to go so far as saying victim mentality, but out of the mentality that like, this is outta my control. You know, it's like, well, what is in control here? What is in my control? Well, I am my mindset, my frame, my, my framework, my

yeah,

yeah, yeah.

Principle number one, right. Start with the man in the 

A hundred percent. 

percent. Yeah. That's, that's sort of why there's more leverage. There's. And, and more efficacy , you know, it's more effective. Yeah. I, I had this dream couple weeks ago, maybe three weeks ago, and in the dream I was sort of,

well, I was, I was slaying some zombies.

I was like slicing, stabbing. , I was really holding my own for a bit and then it got overwhelming, you know? And so I hid and at the end of this train of zombies coming in, they were, you know, zombies aren't that bright, so they were sort of walking right past me, and with the last entity in the line was Darth Vader.

that.

He looked right at me. I mean, I'm hiding behind something, but he looked right at me. He could sense me

me. Mm-hmm.

with his Vader sense, and, and so I was caught, you know, and thankfully, I had this miniature Millennium Falcon that I found. Of course. Yeah. And it led me as I care. I ran with it and I escaped my shadow.

Right? This, this shadow figure, Darth Vader is the, is is such a, um, such a iconic. Image of the shadow, right? He's, he's dressed in all black. He's, uh, 

drastic, it's 

yeah, he, he looks like a walking shadow, right? So I started really thinking about this image and, you know, what is this part of me? What is this? What is the Darth Vader within, if you will?

And yeah, really. This way in which I can be very cold and calculated and it, it's, it's the, the evil within that, you know, I, I wasn't about to have, be a part of me. You know, that's, that's not a good thing to embody, right? So push. Aspect of myself down, make it unconscious. And yet it's a very powerful figure.

And there's goodness too, right? Like remember the end when Luke takes the mask off, there's this sweet, you know, caring, loving father in there, right?

Hmm.

And so this, this aspect of me comes out when I'm triggered. Sometimes I get like , you know, my, my, one of my kids will hit the other or something like that. You know, they get, and I am flooded and, and I'm like, , go to your room. You know, it's like . Yeah. It like takes me over and

yeah. And so I've just been playing with that and you know, how do I really take from that the, the power, which is something. Rage. Right? Like Darth Vader was an angry dude. Let's face it. You know, he was pissed off at the world and he channeled that rage in some behaviors that are questionable at best.

Mm-hmm. , you know, he was not, not nice all the time, you know? 

to say the 

yeah. Pinching people's necks. , you know, killing him and stuff. But how, yeah, so how to sort of mine for the anger, the power within the anger as distinct from the evil sort of behavior

Hmm.

you. 

Yeah. Well, and I mean, I what I kind of hear you saying or am am extrapolating from 

what you're saying, right, 

the anger is powerful and the, the sort of calculating direct quality. tHat Darth Vader, in this case, embodies is a really like powerful quality. 

Yeah. Useful, 

useful, right? Well, and that's, that's the thing is that, but the ways that those powerful emotions and powerful qualities are being.

expressed

are distorted and they're are distorted. because they've been relegated 

right 

to the dungeons. Right. 

They're unconscious. They're, 

they're unconscious. Right? They're not, they're not in, it's like, you know, they don't have the prefrontal cortex to help them

move

through the world in like productive ways.

in, In meaningful ways. And I think that like, that's, that's like the, the beauty of it all. Right? It's like there, it, the, the potent energy and even the qualities qualities that, that energy is embodying, are not

inherently

wrong or bad or evil, but.

they get

Expressed in distorted or, you know, twisted ways because they're so constricted by

These, this counter, this force that says like, you're not allowed to be here. 

here.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I, I I told you I went. Buena Vista mm-hmm. this weekend, and I drove by the prison there. Mm. And I've, I've spent some time in that prison. N not, not as an inmate, but as I've, I've done some work there with correctional officers and yeah, there is, there is something about the repression.

alone that leads to behaviors that are dangerous. So I'm not saying that repression is wrong, you know, it's, it is not that the shadow's wrong. We, we have to do this. We have to, we have to splinter off parts of ourselves in order to fit into society. It's necess. 

Under the current model of existence 

and every other model that's existed existed.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's not that

it, it, it's not that there's something wrong with this process of creating shadows. It's that. Until we make the unconscious catch it, it's that it seeps out. 

Mm-hmm. . 

And

so, wait, I'm trying to remember my train of thought with the prison, you know, I'm, I'm not saying that the people in there, you know, don't engage in behaviors that are consciously, that are conscious and problematic. They do. So do I sometimes. But in addition to that, if you put a bunch of people in a prison,

So

there's something about the container.

Mm-hmm. . The pushing down, the severing off, that adds, that creates new. problematic behaviors. I mean, what happens in prisons? People do things in prisons that they don't do outside of prisons, right? Mm-hmm. , there is something in the repression that is problematic.

Yeah,

they're co. 

Yeah. Makes makes for, you know, this. Yeah. It makes for reactions. It, it creates. A, a reaction to the action, right? 

Yeah. 

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, 

so, 

cuz I want to wrap things up cuz for our listeners and for ourselves,

as we have places to be and go. And

I'm sure they do too. 

too. Yeah. 

I think one big takeaway here,

right there

are. Unconscious forces that are driving

our behaviors

and some of those behaviors that are being driven by

these unconscious forces are

likely problematic 

or 

harmful,

um,

or, 

just 

taking us exactly where we want to be going in terms of

connection, in terms of,

you know, who knows our careers, our lives. And so. Engaging in, in some processes

to, to

make the

unconscious. conscious. And you gave this example of dreamwork last week, or last episode. I

gave this example of

like a, a interpersonal coaching, acupuncture experience therapies, an example. journaling probably can help bring things that are unconscious.

into our conscious mind. There's lots and

lots and lots and lots of ways to do this that has

a sort of,

that liberates that empowers us and gives us more freedom essentially to make decisions about how we use the

energy that's there more consciously.

That's kind of one thing. Another thing I think that's worth like repeating and summarizing

is that like

we have these powerful emotions That we've coupled with actions

and. If, if we can

work on allowing ourselves to feel the emotions, you know, and finding ways to

decouple them from behaviors

that can,

be its own liberating experience.

Like,

oh, I can feel anger without yelling at my children. Or I can feel anger. and then Go to my room and yell at, you know,

at the wall or the pillow or whatever it is. Or you know,

and, So

that those are a couple of takeaways. What, what are some, some things that, I'm,

I'm missing here, Dave.

I'm missing one. One key is the parallel process with our kids. Like how do we, how do we deal with that knowledge?

Right? We're talking about the fact that. , we as adults are trying to make conscious things that were splintered off when we were kids, right? So the natural question becomes, as parents, how do we use that knowledge to parent?

knowledge

How do we help our kids? You know, they're, they're inevitably going to create shadow material by splintering off aspects of themselves.

But, you know, how can we facilitate sort of, Healthiest process possible. Right. So, you know, one way is sort of what you're talking about is by, as adults we're, you know, I always say don't parent angry. Like separating anger from discipline, for example, is, helpful in that it avoids sort of sham.

You know, and, and kids pairing their emotions with their behaviors, it helps to differentiate those two, right? Mm-hmm. , like you were saying, like you can feel angry. You can't hit, 

were saying. 

know, like those strategies of supporting kids to feel and doing our best to not, you know,

Not create an environment where shame thrives, you know? aNd we've talked a lot about those sort of strategies, yeah. Coming down to like, yeah, like repairing and processing and. You know, helping our kids name their emotions and helping our kids when they flip their lids and, and modeling how we deal with emotions and triggers.

And then

I guess doing our best to like, love all aspects of our kids. Like challenging ourselves to when we feel ourselves judging our kids, like get curious about that. Not just because there might be something, some shadow material that's getting triggered in us, but also because we have the intention to accept as much of our kids' beings as.

You know, let them, let them explore, let them dress up, let them be kids, you know, which is easier said than done. It's, it's like you said, there's often this impulse that comes also from what we learned, right? 

right. 

I wasn't allowed to do that, so I can't let my kid do. I'm getting curious about that. What if I did let my kid, you know, try that on?

What would that look like? You know, and what would that encourage?

Yeah. Beautiful.

Thank you for that. That addition seems vital, right? Like how does

what can we do to reduce the amount?

That our children splinter off into shadow? seEms like a, a, a real gift

for them. 

Yeah. And inevitably, you know, there's opportunities for that outside of parenting too. Sure. Like it happens in school, it happens with peers. And how do we support them in that too? Like it's this constant. Attention to the authentic self, and despite all odds and despite all the challenges to being authentic in school with peers mm-hmm.

you know, how do we keep an open channel with them, open communication so they can keep doing their job. Mm-hmm. , you know,

I

am hearing, Or what's coming up for me right now as we kind of try to bring

things to a close

is this piece around belonging. Just from what you said, because I think it applies to us as

adults,

a ,

You know, in terms of what we can provide for our children and, You

know,

how

much can we share of our authentic selves with our partners?

You know, what is the level of safety that we've created for, for them and they for us,

in terms of

being able to express and share parts of

ourselves that like we

might have Shame

around or guilt around or

you know, what about our friends? Like do we

have intimate friendships outside of our partnership That offer a space where we're

like unconditionally

accepted for who we are, where

we share the stuff.

that, You know, I think that, I think those spaces are, are very rare these days for adults in our culture in our world, both in

terms of the inner,

the partnership and in terms of friends you siblings, right? Like, and so

yeah,

I mean, I don't, I don't, you know, there's a solution there, just, just seeking that out, like being mindful that taking risks I think is like a big thing of like, huh, let what happens. between Me and this person, if I like actually open up a little bit more. How do they respond and like, oh,

they

responded that way, huh?

Like maybe, maybe I shouldn't be spending so much time.

with them. Maybe I should find Somebody who's

gonna be a little bit more open or accepting or

curious. 

And the flip side to that, so I love, I love that is like, how do we create relationships that are really supportive, who we truly are? 

Mm-hmm. . 

And if you wanna know what your shadow looks like, find someone you don't like and you don't feel accepted.

and you feel judged by

you're.

Totally. 

And, and so the point being like that's where the, that's in addition to dreamwork, in addition to therapy, in addition to acupuncture, in addition to all these technologies we've been talking about, relationship is gold in terms. Becoming aware of the shadow, right? Like

yeah, my wife is like the greatest person I know. I love her. She's incredible. She lights up the room. She is brilliant and beautiful in every. and nobody triggers me like her

One. I

was gonna say, you don't have to 

like seek 

out

people

that trigger you, you sh you know that 

they're, they're close to home 

Yeah.

Usually they're,

Yeah. 

But the, the value in one of the, I mean, I've said this before, but like one of the biggest, in my mind, one of the functions of a long-term relationship, . It's one of the best ways to grow yourself to, to make the unconscious conscious because

there's nothing like a partner to end kids to bring up projections. Mm-hmm. like we were talking about, like, wow, I'm judging my kid right now. That means there's something within me that. Is not yet conscious and I really want to get there. Thank you so much, sweetheart, for bringing that up for me.

so much. I'm

just gonna end on this note, It's sort of.

I don't know, it might be a little too biblical for certain people, but I had this sort of thought, like there's that, that phrase in

the, I don't remember. I was driving my kids somewhere and I don't know,

I don't even remember how this came into my head, but you know, there. Love my neighbor like thyself. 

Mm-hmm. . It's sort 

spoken of as like a commandment

or a, you know,

this is what you should do. Right. But it's actually, I think, a statement of fact.

you will only love your neighbor as, much as you love yourself. Yes. Meaning that if you have judgment and or

you know,

anything negative that you're sending towards your neighbor, that means that that's, you're, you're also have, you're not loving that part. That is part of you.

That. ,you're holding a hot piece of coal to throw.

Exactly. 

Yeah. And it goes vice versa, right? Like, you wanna be compassionate with your kids. Right? You best be compassionate with yourself. you. You wanna be compassionate with yourself, practice on your kids. Right? Like it's, it's bidirectional. Yeah. You know? But I love that. Yes, I agree. And 

Thank you.

Thank you guys.

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some be well y'all. Thanks.