A Confession: Making Fatherhood Sacred

In this episode, we dive into something profound yet often unspoken—the journey of fathers connecting not only with each other but with something deeper, something sacred. Here Noah shares his perspective on creating a space for dads to explore connection beyond the everyday—a sacred space, if you will.

Together, Noah and Dave unpack what it means to bring a sense of purpose and spirit into fatherhood, an idea that feels both challenging and refreshing in today’s fast-paced world. Noah talks about making the invisible visible, being intentional about the values that anchor his life, and how creating sacred moments can resonate within family life and community. From lighting a candle before a family meal to cultivating deeper connections in a circle of dads, this conversation invites you to consider ways of introducing both playfulness and purpose into the rhythms of family and fatherhood.

If you’ve ever felt like there’s more to fatherhood than what we see on the surface, or if you’re curious about ways to elevate and ground your connections, this episode is for you.

Transcript:

A Confession - Bringin Spirit into the Fatherhood Circle

[00:00:00] Noah: Hi, and welcome to the Council of Fathers podcast. We are here to talk about how to bring more heart and soul into the wild and fun and crazy journey of fatherhood. I'm Noah.

[00:00:19] Dave: This is Dave. 

[00:00:20] Noah: Welcome. 

[00:00:22] Dave: What's up, Noah? 

[00:00:24] Noah: Oh, what Is up

The sky, the clouds, the sun. Well, yeah.

[00:00:30] Dave: yeah.

[00:00:31] Noah: How are you?

good. 

[00:00:34] Dave: good. I'm a little tired, 

[00:00:35] Noah: Okay. 

[00:00:37] Dave: I'm starting to wake up.

Thanks to the cup of coffee. You just made for me. Appreciate

[00:00:42] Noah: You're very welcome. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:00:44] Dave: I'm excited about our, our talk today.

[00:00:47] Noah: I'm excited too. I'm very excited too. 

[00:00:49] Dave: Yeah.

we have been, well, we just started, I think our eighth cohort of council of fathers. That's like, uh, that's like when you reach a million views on something or another. Uh, okay. It's a big deal for us though.

Uh, we've been doing this since January, 2020, which means by the way, we've been doing this for almost five years.

[00:01:18] Noah: That's a good chunk of time. I've had a second child over that period, a third child. Ha ha, ha ha. Um, a lot has, I've moved. And we've seen new and different iterations and an evolution of both. how we run the program, how the program is, and who's involved. We've had, we have a new, a new team member now. Um, so yeah, 

[00:01:52] Dave: , lots has, changed. evolved over the last five years. And , I thought we could take a moment today to talk about that, how things have evolved and how our thinking about this movement has evolved. And I think you and I have both recently had a surge of excitement about Council of 

[00:02:17] Noah: Oh, definitely.

[00:02:19] Dave: There seems to be a surge in the need that we're hearing from people, from dads, and, and the world feels a little bit like it's, there's a surge in the world, a need for

something. And I think that's the something we want to talk about today. 

[00:02:41] Noah: Yeah. And

let's be real. We've also been watching, uh, Nobody Wants This on Netflix.

[00:02:48] Dave: And 

[00:02:48] Noah: And we've been super inspired by, uh, by the, the, the podcast on that show. , so we're going to up our game a little bit, maybe, hopefully.

[00:02:57] Dave: we're going

to 

[00:03:00] Noah: pretty high 

[00:03:01] Dave: up our game

[00:03:04] Noah: Yeah

[00:03:05] Dave: little bit maybe, hopefully. That's a pretty high bar.

And it was sort of like, you know, after almost five years of doing Council of Fathers, some clarity coalesced for you, uh, something, or, or, or just you were ready to say something that you hadn't been. If you haven't checked out that, that newsletter, check it out. Um, but for listeners out there, what was this confession that you made lately?

I have, I have to say Noah that I am, uh, you know, I'm Catholic by,, religion as a child. So confession is a big word. It's a real big word that you use

[00:04:00] Noah: Yeah.

[00:04:01] Dave: What did you mean by it?

[00:04:03] Noah: Well, I meant, what I basically said was that, as much as council fathers to me is about creating support between and amongst dads. There's an element of

connecting

dads to what I would call the sacred, , what I would call spirit, , that in sometimes taboo and like ineffable stuff that exists out of the realm of the material and out of the realm of the rational. And so I think that's something that a lot of people are actually thirsting for. And it is certainly a very big part of me being able to be who I am. , it's a big part of our family culture. , it's a big part of my community culture. Sometimes in more explicit ways and sometimes in more implicit ways.

And I don't know if that is just a bunch of words that don't mean anything to anybody else out there. Or if people are like, Oh yeah, I understand what he's talking about, but, which is so I can explain a little bit more, but,

[00:05:17] Dave: he's talking about,

but just so can explain a little bit more.

[00:05:31] Noah: Totally. What does

[00:05:34] Dave: what does that big word mean? You're, you're using big words.

[00:05:38] Noah: uh, unspeakable. It that there's nothing you can really say to actually, , describe the experience. I think that word came to me when I was in a Jewish mysticism class in college, and that was the word that was being, you know, used to talk about how, , Mystics always try to talk about their experience and convey them in some way, but ultimately these experiences are not fully describable.

, and I think I'm feeling a little bit more comfortable talking about this stuff given, ,

large part, like thanks to a lot of like the psychedelic world coming in more into the mainstream, , but , just really feeling like. I don't need to hide and that people are actually thirsty for this and maybe they can't quite put a finger on what it is they're thirsty for beyond connection or in addition to connection with, with brothers.

And , it's pretty simple to just add this as another ingredient into what we do. And it, and the reality is that we've, we've been including it. , and I think if people go back to that episode, , where we were having a discussion with some of the dads at the end of a, of a six month cohort, , they, they use the word sacred space or the term sacred space.

And I think that's something we've always been trying to create a container that, that feels sacred. .

[00:07:09] Dave: Yeah. So. It's not necessarily something new, but you're, you're starting to be just more explicit about it, , because there's something powerful about being explicit. Naming. Your intention, right? This goes back to what we were talking about last podcast episode, that this is about in part, it's about meaning and purpose, right?

That you're being explicit about the purpose of council of fathers at this point, where did this come from? Where did, where did this inspiration to be explicit, to confess this unfolding purpose. 

[00:08:00] Noah: I think

it came from feeling safe. I think that, , well, I'm Jewish, if that isn't obvious from my name, Noah Goldstein. Think

[00:08:12] Dave: And your many references to Jewish

[00:08:14] Noah: Throughout the podcast

Ha ha ha

[00:08:17] Dave: in Israel and

Yeah. There's

been some clues along the way

[00:08:21] Noah: So, , and I think, uh, as, as a people, we, we have a lot of, , history of needing to hide and needing to keep certain things quiet or hidden or secret.

, and I think, and also just as a, a person in Western culture as a man, there are things that are taboo, things that like we're not supposed to talk about. , The, the, the history of the Salem witch trials, ? That's not like that's somewhere in my psyche is like, is it safe to sort of quote unquote, come out, , that this is a part of who I am and how I am in the world.

And, , I can't quite put my finger on where that sense of safety is coming from. , but yeah, I felt like, I don't want to hide anymore. I don't want to like keep things in the dark anymore. I feel like The this is this is what the world needs. This is what is being asked of me. And I also think it does to some degree hone Who's interested?

joining

us and what we do and how we do things and they're when I first started this I was like, well, I just need dads any dad , like I'm whoever Feels like they want to be a part of it. Let's have them be a part of it and and I still Think this that anyone who feels like they want to be a part of it I want them to be a part of it, and I want them to know, I want them to know what they're becoming a part of so that they can really assess, , What it is that they're being a part of.

Like we, we do intake interviews or a little session whenever someone applies to be a part of a group, we talk with them and you know, it's about making sure it's a good fit. And so the more explicit we are, the more clear we are, the more real we are about what exactly we're up to.

The more that helps people who are interested find us and.

[00:10:19] Dave: Yeah, I love that. I mean, you're, you're, in essence, the move you're making is, is a leadership move. It's sort of like you're stating, we're stating, uh, the vision for Council of Fathers.

And then dads can look within and say, well, what's my personal vision and does it align with the vision of Council of Fathers? Because We want to go somewhere and we're asking, do you want to come with us? And where we want to go is higher, right? It's, we want to elevate, we want to, um, yeah, take dads, , to an elevated place, something like that, I think is what you're saying.

[00:11:07] Noah: You've never articulated it that way, and I love that.

I love that idea of elevating something. I love that idea, idea of taking dads to a higher place. I love that verbiage, that wordage, that statement

[00:11:21] Dave: And

[00:11:23] Noah: The other thing I would kind of bring in here is I think the clearer we are, the clearer resonance we're creating. And it's , if we're like, Hey guys, we're, we're a men's group for dads.

That's like just playing the C note in a, in a chord, in a C chord. Right. And if we're like, Oh, and by the way, you know, we really want to bring our heart, our heart into it. Like, okay, so now we've added the, the E note. . And then if we're like, Oh, and by the way. We also, we're going to bring some soul in, we're going to bring spirit and we're going to, we're going to create sacred space.

Then now we've got the G in there and we have a full, a full C note and that creates a richer, more robust resonance. Um, and maybe even like a louder note for people to be like, Oh, that sounds, that sounds good. 

[00:12:12] Dave: good. You know, we have an episode on soul and we have an episode on shadow, right? That we've added, we've also played some minor chords, right? Some soulful chords, some depth, because when we're talking about spirit and talking about elevation, we're talking about this ascendant nature, but we don't want to lose the descending, the depth, the soul.

Shadow is going to follow us wherever there's light, there's shadow, and we don't want to ignore the shadow. So I'm, I'm just reflecting on this musical metaphor. And when we flat the third, we get something really soulful too. And so we want, we want access to all of that.

[00:13:10] Noah: Yeah

[00:13:12] Dave: You also mentioned a moment ago that the use of, or the, the popularity of psychedelics right now contributed to maybe a readiness for talking about spirit. ,

the popularity of altered states or higher states or elevated states,

Will you talk a little bit about that? Because I know that's been a recent, , interest in yours.

you're sort

of suggesting that these things can be almost like substitutes for what we're looking for.

[00:13:57] Noah: Yeah. Yeah. So it's funny because I, I created, started creating an offering in my, in my acupuncture practice.

, I call it substance free psychedelic sessions because acupuncture alters your state of consciousness in a way that's different from psilocybin or ayahuasca or any of these other, , entheogens, plant medicines. But,, but nonetheless potent and powerful and, and, and magical. And I think that the reality is that gathering in a circle of men saying a prayer or an invocation as we call it.

Cause that's less charged maybe than, than the word prayer for some people saying a blessing and lighting a candle and feeling the energy in the room shift and having people drop into their hearts as they share. Like we're all not walking around in the same state of consciousness as we are when we're on our phone, scrolling Instagram, or as we are when we're, You know hanging out with our kids or our partners or at work like it's a different state of consciousness now It's not altered by any sort of you know external substance.

The reality is that the human mind the brain really is So able to shift and move and change into these different states of consciousness without substances and so Not that there's anything wrong with substances, but that there's something powerful about you, you know, using the body's own physiology to, to get into a place of depth and connection and of elevation.

[00:15:47] Dave: Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Part of what you're speaking to, I think is, is the intention behind whatever activity we're engaged in, in, in the newsletter that you, is that what we're calling it? Newsletter? Okay. Yeah. Substack. I'm just, I'm just getting familiar with these things. You mentioned, you know, binging on.

Shows or these other ways that we try to, uh, attain another state or a connection with something greater that the way you describe it, it's sort of, you know, it's unconscious. Whereas when you're talking about lighting a candle, an invocation, gathering intentionally, acupuncture, these are all. with intention, with presence, with purpose, not just, falling into a unconscious activity to

try to change our state.

[00:16:52] Noah: can even like consciously engage in those quote unquote less conscious or unconscious activities. Like when I'm sitting down to watch a show at the end of the day,, I know that I'm choosing to sort of drop into this, You know, exhale to just like let myself be be taken away into a story.

Um, you know, maybe it's a funny one and maybe it's a magical one and maybe it's a,, thrilling one. But , I'm giving myself permission to, to, to do that , and knowingly choosing that. ,

[00:17:28] Dave: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with

[00:17:29] Noah: yes, exactly. That's why I guess I don't want to like, Um, make anything right or wrong or better than or lesser than necessarily, ?

[00:17:37] Dave: Right. But there is something behind choosing, you know, as opposed to, , being reactive or reflexive, , to have the flexibility and the freedom to choose to sit down and check out, , versus, , Being lost and really having, like you said, a thirst for something, not knowing how to attain it, and just , falling into the routine that we're not choosing.

It's just happening to us, or something like that.

[00:18:12] Noah: Well, just to bring it back to parenting,

[00:18:15] Dave: Oh yeah. This is a parenting podcast.

[00:18:18] Noah: That is something also that we can bring into how we are in our families and how we are as parents. And it's like, oh, I can, I can notice that I'm kind of grumpy or that one of the kids is kind of grumpy and I can choose to bring Play or goofiness or silliness or tickling or , whatever into Into the space to create a shift to bring us into some different vibe and sometimes that's met with welcoming and acceptance and other times it's met with resistance and it's like You You know, no, I don't want to be goofy right now.

I'm in a grumpy mood and that's okay too. But just recognizing that, there's ways that we can have choices around, do we light a candle when we sit down at the dinner table? I know that's an example I use often, but , how does that shift the energy of, of, of the meal and of the family and family culture? , or,, okay, nobody's going to get up and leave the table until after we say some sort of. Closing blessing for our meal and blow out the candle. ,

How do those little things enrich, , our experience as a family and, , also remembering that kids are kids and, , not expecting some deep reverence or, like kids are kids.

And. Then you get these moments where they all of a sudden blow you out of the water and say something that you're like Whoa, my seven year old just said or my three year old just said what 

[00:19:49] Dave: Yeah, you're steeping them, each day and then one day that results in some new understanding of the world.

Yeah. It's, it's also, it feels like, you know, come back to that music metaphor. We're expanding the range. You know, vocally, my range , as I talk on this podcast, it's a little limited, but , the range of emotion, the range of experience, the range of

consciousness,, when we're going to get new tires or going to Target or whatever, we're necessarily within this normal range of consciousness to interact with folks. But it behooves us to expand that range on purpose. as a family sometimes, , and I, I really appreciate in the newsletter too, that you say this doesn't have to be serious.

And just now you mentioned being goofy and silly and that that's spiritual too.

[00:20:53] Noah: Yeah. I mean, I think that's been something that I've learned over time, throughout time, in terms of the traditions that I've grown up with and

is

that dancing and joyfulness and singing and happy songs and are all beautiful spiritual expressions as are mournful songs and, it's , again, that spectrum, like embracing it all.

And, and, um, Yeah, I think that we get to, we're humans, right? We're here to live a human experience and, and that is, is hopefully going to include a lot of different things. And, , one of the things that I've been finding is the more I feel Everything, the more able I am to feel everything, ?

And so that means falling into deep grief about the state of the world. , , and, I don't need to go down that rabbit hole right now. But, feeling great joy and elation at , Wrestling with my kid on the rug or the beautiful golden leaves right now in the fall it It's sort of embracing it all letting it all be an experience.

That's part of our experience and creating time and space and room for grief and sadness and despair as well as celebration and joy and we do that in our groups, too

[00:22:23] Dave: Yeah.., we just started our recent cohort last week and always just struck by the courage and the connection and, the way that dads are moved when they.

sit around a circle with each other, , I think as the years have, have moved on, I sort of attribute less and less to us and our facilitation and more and more to the container and the, Yeah. What did you call it? Yeah. The sacred space, right? There's something happens when you set the table and everyone gathers to eat.

[00:23:08] Noah: And I just want to name , , that is the magic that we do.

Cause I also want to own, , it seems seamless. It seems like it's all just happening on its own. , but when, Whenever it seems like it's all just happening on its own, that means that there's a lot happening behind the scenes usually. , and I've had experiences of going and like being a part of something and being , Oh, that's so cool.

I want to do that. And thinking , Oh, I could probably just do that already. And I don't,

[00:23:34] Dave: Must be easy. Yeah.

[00:23:36] Noah: And then understanding over time that there's,

[00:23:39] Dave: We put in a lot of reps for sure and we put in hours and hours and hours of Thought and intention and , I think that's sort of what What is unfolding and why we're talking about this confession of yours is that?

It's evolved something has evolved over time and so we're sort of, I think you and I are sitting down and where are we now? You know, 

[00:24:07] Noah: well,

speaking of confessions again, Dave, if you were to, , write that post of your, your version of that post, what, what confession would you have to make?

[00:24:20] Dave: you, are you turning the microphone on me?

This is about, you know, I kid. As someone who was raised Catholic confession is not usually done on a podcast to, you know, lots of listeners, but let's, let's go for it. Yeah, I, I love what you had to say.

I love, you know, your, you called it a stealth mission. And I think if I were to have a stealth mission, it, it sort of harkens back to the, newsletter I wrote, which was entitled, , we need better men, , and as that was about, , that was after watching. The debate between Trump and Biden.

And I was just appalled by these two elders and just,

[00:25:18] Noah: these two old men? 

[00:25:21] Dave: Yeah, 

[00:25:22] Noah: elders.

[00:25:23] Dave: That's right. And , that was my point was like, we need to create elders. , and they're not it. They've been deemed that by culture. I think that's sort of, they've been put in the most, the highest position in our country.

And that says something. That's a value statement that. These two men that are around 80, , have been elevated to a certain level in society. And I really struggled watching their interaction. It was really painful. And it made me feel

sense of urgency around, we got to start working on our elders now, ?

, so that we have a cadre one day who have a greater range of potential and a greater range of leadership.

And so my stealth mission is something like, yeah. , not creating better men, but better supporting men to be , their full potential. When, when dads come to us in Council of Fathers, there's this beautiful unfolding, this beautiful, becoming that happens I think there's, there's three things that happen

[00:26:53] Noah: Tell me,

[00:26:53] Dave: I mean, there's much more you'll, you'll have to argue with me or add to it, but three things stand out. One is this witnessing that happens, ? That was really potent the other 

[00:27:06] Noah: night. 

[00:27:08] Dave: dads are sitting here and There's 10 of us.

So as one dad is talking, 10 dads are nodding. Some are tearing up. That is an altered state. Like you said, that, that is a moment that's transformative to be witnessed like

[00:27:32] Noah: Mm-Hmm.

[00:27:33] Dave: To be witnessed with emotion. Like there's a, there is an ineffable connection that's happening. So being witnessed is one. I think witnessing is another, in addition to, to the transformation that happens when, when a dad shares and everybody nods, there's this transformation that happens vicariously when I witness another dad.

[00:28:01] Noah: Absolutely. 

[00:28:03] Dave: hear their story. And it moves me, it alters me. That's, I don't know how else to explain it, but it's wild, right?

Like you, you're like, Whoa, something just happened to me. And they were talking, it's their story, but something happened for me.

[00:28:21] Noah: And we see that all the time. And I mean, ,

, we've even had people explicitly say , you may have just had a healing moment right now, but it's nothing and compared to the healing moment that I've had watching you have your healing moment, , you know, you just showed me something that, that I didn't even know was possible, ?

Or., I didn't even understand how that kind of courage could be cultivated or that kind of strength could be cultivated or, , people were inspired by each other.

[00:28:53] Dave: Yeah, that's a good

[00:28:54] Noah: And, and that's uplifting. That's elevating all of us.

[00:28:58] Dave: absolutely. Not to mention, , speaking, something that's been, you've been holding on to all day, all week, all month, all year, whatever, there's, material that's withheld

Especially for men, you know, that I don't think men in our culture, society have adequate opportunities to unload to in a, in a healthy way, right?

There's all these unhealthy ways to, , try to move energy, , but mostly I think we're taught to hold tightly, to withhold, and there's this opportunity to not, you know, to just let it flow here. And I think that's really cathartic. But the third thing

[00:29:51] Noah: what's the third thing, Dave

[00:29:52] Dave: The third thing is this way in which, I mean I like the term sacred space, I was thinking of the term retreat, uh, sanctuary is another, there's this way in which. We are just marching out there to our lives, just one foot after the other, , roll out of bed and you're just in it all day, just responding to your kid's demands and your job's demands.

And, being bombarded by messages and it's constant. And then you walk up these stairs to 

[00:30:38] Noah: this 

[00:30:40] Dave: that is designed to be a break from all of that, a space where we're taking. Refuge from the outside world and and with intention again, right? So it's like we're coming together to retreat regroup Uh so that we can go back out and and father some more, you know, let's All right, guys.

Let's let's huddle in and Recover from the week. 

[00:31:12] Noah: Yeah It's,

it's, it's really beautiful and incredible. And it's, it's such an honor and a privilege to get to be creating that space for, for other people. , and then participating in that space. in it, , and I think That word refuge the the you know, the the refrain come in. She said i'll give you shelter from the storm You know that really feels like what we're trying to do here what we do

[00:31:38] Dave: do. , poet laureate, Robert Zimmerman.

Yeah, from the wisdom of a true elder.

[00:31:49] Noah: Which I want to circle back to because, 

you titled that we need better men, but really what you probably meant was that we need better support for men because the men that we have here all around us are beautiful, love filled, ,

Yeah, beautiful men and they're anguished and, and stricken and tortured in so many ways, , by so many different things, their own personal demons, our cultural kind of craziness.

It's, it's all, it's all kind of coming to a head., and without support, there's isolation, there's a sense of stuckness, there's a sense of lostness, , and it festers,, and it causes a bunch of harm. So , having the support that's needed is, is, is what is going to create change and create that opportunity for, for men to become elders as they, as they age.

[00:32:51] Dave: Yeah.

[00:32:52] Noah: And I want to just add in really, really feels important to me and, you know, in my lineage and tradition, you know, elders are not perfect people. We, we all yearn. for the leader who is flawless, for the,, the executive, the president, the whatever, who's like never made a mistake in their lives, who, , embodies this perfect glowing sense of whatever. And as humans, we all make mistakes. We all do things we really regret doing. , and we hurt people we love. And unless we're living in a culture where there's permission to be a human and make mistakes, you can still be held accountable, but can you be held accountable in a loving way? Can there be room for you to make amends? to honor and acknowledge that you messed up and that you're on a path. And that path towards improvement, towards growth, towards , changing one's ways is not linear . And it's not a perfect path either. And I think one of the things I hope we all get to experience in this circle, , and maybe through this podcast and talking about these things is that we, we do our best and our best is never good enough. And at the same time, our best is very much good enough. 

[00:34:28] Dave: To strive for perfection and even the stride like the virtuous Striving to be good. I think is dangerous., I mean, there's some there's there's definite value in aspiration right like aspiring to move in the direction of Let's say Being more loving and more compassionate and, and whatever, more virtuous.

But often that effort comes from,, this perfectionist fixed mindset that creates shadow. And so you get shadow seeping out, right? So we Council of Fathers, we make space for shadow. It's so important. , it's so important to make mistakes. It's so important to, be imperfect.

You know, it comes really naturally to me. Imperfection. I'm, I'm very, very good at it. I'm grateful for that. But we want to make room. For all of that. I appreciate you bringing that in. 

[00:35:51] Noah: I'll just add on to that, , that allowing for mistakes, allowing for

[00:35:59] Dave: would

[00:36:00] Noah: people to be imperfect, , allowing for forgiveness and the possibility of making amends and it means accepting nuance and complexity. It means not looking at things as black and white. It it means holding humility around our sense of self righteousness.

And I think that's something that, , we could see a lot more of in, in our collective culture. And, um, I will say that my sense is that the loudest voices right now are the ones who Are holding things in black and white and self righteousness and lack of nuance and just because those are the loudest voices Doesn't mean that actually a majority of the voices aren't

holding kind of more of the nuance and the perplexity 

[00:36:51] Dave: Yeah. We are inviting those voices. We are inviting The voices of nuance and inviting We're inviting more confessions You know,. You're making this stealth mission No longer stealth you're saying We're here to help Our community connect with something greater something necessary and the direction we all need to move.

We're here to do that through Council of Fathers and there's a lot of dads out there who have this sense that Something's not quite right. I'm not quite The man I, I thought I was, or I know I truly am, ? There's, , there's someone that wants to emerge. And that's part of the movement, is for whatever reason, right now, in this place, in this time, Um, man.

A lot of men are lost and society's not providing guidance, not providing a path. And we're, we're saying, come, come talk about that with us. Come, , try that on, try that out. We know there's something in there

and

it's, it's welcome here. , it's not. Welcome in the line at the bank or the grocery store yet, but it is here Can I read you one paragraph here and you you will close with it if you're okay

[00:38:42] Noah: great. I love it. I

[00:38:43] Dave: Want to get your response to this

So for years now i've been calling spirit And the sacred into our council of fathers In addition to camaraderie, in addition to new insights and skills, in addition to sense of support from brothers, these dads go home with a strengthened tether to the magic of this beautiful world. With a shine in their previously dimmed eyes.

With a heart that's at ease because its lifeline has been restored. 

[00:39:20] Noah: That I mean, it's, it's, I mean, like I wrote that.

[00:39:24] Dave: you did.

[00:39:25] Noah: Um,

Yeah,

that's exactly. exactly what, I and we are, are hoping to, to gift and give and, and offer to, to anyone and everyone who's able to, to be a part of our groups. And we try to make it possible for, , anyone who can, that's the Devotional

place I'm coming from. And, , I can even,, closing my eyes now, I can, , sort of see , this rope, , golden rope, and, , each, , I see our circle of men, and each one is sort of one of the strands of that rope is coming out of their heart, and they're all,, wound together into this, this bigger rope, and ,, that's what we're here to do.

That's, that's why we're here. . And, um, I feel really, really grateful and honored to, to have that be, my mission.

[00:40:30] Dave: Yeah. Well, thank you for writing what you wrote. Thank you for saying what you said today, and we are starting a new cohort. If this is interesting to you, enticing to you, if you're thirsty for this. We're starting a new cohort in February. And , we'd love to have you check out the website, council of fathers.

com. And we're also going to be doing, if any alums are listening out there,

[00:41:06] Noah: I was going to say,

[00:41:07] Dave: we're going to run an alumni group in January. So you'll be hearing from us and that's going to be, , you can imagine that's going to be a. Another layer

[00:41:20] Noah: dads who

[00:41:21] Dave: of dads who have been through council of fathers and want more.

[00:41:27] Noah: Thank you, Dave, as always. , and thank you who are listening. , cause otherwise we're just talking to ourselves and if you made it this far, especially thank you. , and we hope you're leaving this with a feeling of, inspiration, levity, joy. ,

Hope.

And if, if you are, if this has been in any way meaningful, please, please send it to a buddy, just text them and be like, I listened to this, I thought you might enjoy it.

And, especially if there's someone who like does not into that soul stuff, right? Like maybe, maybe they're, maybe they're the ones who need it the most or who will resonate with the most, but just keep it all secret. Anything else you want to say to close this out?

[00:42:14] Dave: this out? Yeah! And if you know people in the swing states, send it there. Send it to all your friends in Pennsylvania and Michigan and Ohio. 

[00:42:28] Noah: Alright. Have a great day.